Disputatio:Spatiplanum

Pronunciation

Presumably spatīplānum? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 03:44, 1 Maii 2023 (UTC)

It is a very good question, and I have to say that I don't know (I only reported the attestation). My (poorly-informed) opinion is that there is some freedom for cases like this. Compare:

• The classical mīlĭfŏlĭum_(en) (root: mili-)
• The modern ăcācĭĭfŏlĭus_(en) (root: acaci-)
• The term coined by Plautus (possibly ironically?) sŏcĭŏfraudus_(en) (root: soci-) – only the vocative is attested; on the other hand we have the humanistic socifraudus (vowel length: unknown), sometimes presented as the form used by Plautus (#1, #2, #3, #4, #5)

Having a look at the list of Latin compound terms_(en) might shed some light, but I did not find any further hint. If we follow the classical mīlĭfŏlĭum then it is spătĭplanum. --Grufo (disputatio) 04:13, 1 Maii 2023 (UTC)

Addition: I suspect that when the root of the first term ends with a vowel there is no necessity of a connecting vowel between the two words. See for example arcuballista_(en) (prefix: arcu-) and manuballista_(en) (prefix: manu-). And so spatiplanum would simply be spatĭ- + -planum. Furthermore there is sometimes in Latin compound words the tendency to use a sort of “more primitive” bare root + -i- + second term; see for example angiportus_(en) (from ang(ustus) + -i- + portus) --Grufo (disputatio) 04:46, 1 Maii 2023 (UTC)

2nd addition: There is actually some bibliography that we can read:

• Cfr. Allen, J. H.; Greenough, J. B. (2006). New Latin Grammar for Schools and Colleges : "A final stem-vowel of the first member of the compound usually disappears before a vowel, and usually takes the form of i before a consonant."
• Cfr. Smith, Peter (2006). Greek and Latin Roots: Part I - Latin. Victoria (Canada): BCcampus : "No such vowel is needed if there is already a vowel at the juncture of the two bases; therefore magn-anim-us (E magnanimous), “great-spirited,” aequ-anim-itas (E equanimity), “level-mindedness,” and bene-fact-or (“well-doer”)."

So, whether we see it as spatĭ- + -planum or as spat- + -ĭ- + -planum, the result will always be spatĭplanum. I have also opened a discussion on Wiktionary at Talk:acaciifolius_(en). --Grufo (disputatio) 04:56, 2 Maii 2023 (UTC)

According to Cassell's, plānum has ā, not ă. ¶ Somewhere (not in Traupman's dictionary), I think I remember seeing that basipila 'baseball', despite Vicipaedia's lemma, has a long eye (basīpila). Maybe it was something Ioscius or Iustinus reported in the early days as having to do with the Conventus Lexingtonensis, or maybe they were misinterpreting the rule that, since this pila has a short eye (ĭ), stress in basipila falls on the antepenult. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:48, 2 Maii 2023 (UTC)

Oh you are right about plānum. Someone had written the wrong vowel at our aëroplanum page and I copied from there. I will fix both. Basīpila looks definitely wrong to me (again, maybe someone thought that there is a connecting vowel to take into account, but there isn't if the theme is basĭ-, and it is -ĭ- if the theme is bas-); this is how it works according to both dictionaries and the list of Latin compound terms_(en). --Grufo (disputatio) 12:35, 2 Maii 2023 (UTC)

Addition: The reason why the -i- is always short is that it was actually an -ŏ- (the same connecting vowel that Greek had_(en)) that became -ĭ- due to Latin apophony (the same phenomenon that transforms ex + facio into efficio). Latin apophony never affects long vowels; so either you have -ĭ- or you would have *-ō-. If a theme ends with a vowel, then either the vowel of the theme gets transformed into -ĭ- (it is not a connecting vowel that gets added) or sometimes gets preserved (e.g. benefactor). --Grufo (disputatio) 13:25, 2 Maii 2023 (UTC)

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Medĭterraneus. I hadn't thought about it, but we have a well known example (although a late one): medĭterraneus – where medius becomes medĭ-. --Grufo (disputatio) 09:34, 1 Augusti 2023 (UTC)