Disputatio:Moda
De titulo huius paginae
recensere"Cultus modus" Anglice vertendus videtur "culture-manner", aut si 'cultus' casus genetivus habetur, "manner of culture". Ubinam invenisti hanc versionem Latinam nominis Anglici "fashion"? --Fabullus 20:14, 17 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
- Cultus here is an adjective (="cultivated/tilled/farmed (well); ornamented, neat/well groomed; polished/elegan"), so that cultus modus would mean "refined manner". I think his source is [1]--Rafaelgarcia 20:18, 17 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
- Ups, right you are! I will add your source to the article. Yet, I would prefer something like "modus vestiendi". --Fabullus 20:24, 17 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
- Actually my source was Latinitas as found in Morgan's adumbratio... There listed as a genitive. As for modus vestendi, I agree entirely if we are talking about clothes, but the English article, on which the 1000 pages is based, seems to be about fashion and trends in general.--Ioscius (disp) 20:28, 17 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
- All right. By the way, great job: all those new 1000-pages! --Fabullus 20:34, 17 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
- Actually my source was Latinitas as found in Morgan's adumbratio... There listed as a genitive. As for modus vestendi, I agree entirely if we are talking about clothes, but the English article, on which the 1000 pages is based, seems to be about fashion and trends in general.--Ioscius (disp) 20:28, 17 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
- Ups, right you are! I will add your source to the article. Yet, I would prefer something like "modus vestiendi". --Fabullus 20:24, 17 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
What about Consuetudo saeculi for fashion from a more general point of view, Mos vestis when talking about clothing? (maybe two articles?)--Utilo 13:41, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- For 'fashion' in general, Cassell's gives mos, consuetudo, ritus ; for 'style of dress', habitus and ornatus ; for 'the prevailing fashion, what is fashionable', saeculum (apud Tacitum). And 'out of fashion' [= 'unfashionable'] is obsoletus. Maybe just Consuetudo would be best for en:Fashion (though the present article under the title of Consuetudo, dealing with jurisprudence, would need another title), and habitus would be best for 'style of dress'. IacobusAmor 14:12, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- I agree that the article on consuetudo needs another title. What it's about is ius non scriptum or lex non scripta. On the other hand, consuetudo is more general than fashion. Cicero defined it as "altera natura", stressing that once a human has internalised a cultural system, it becomes a natural & unquestionable part of one's subjective world. It seems to be extremely difficult to fancy out an exact counterpart to fashion; saeculum qua 'Zeitgeist' needs extra contextual info; mos is a bit too general, too (Pitkäranta offers mos novissimus). The primary meaning of fashion is modus vestiendi, but of course that's not all, and somehow it fails to capture the normative aspect of fashion -- that it doesn't just come about but is (esp. nowadays) created, and a part of the global market economy. Most languages don't do without the international loan word moda. Do we? Should we? --Neander 15:37, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- As a native English-speaker, I've never heard of moda ; it looks related to Latin modus. Of course we have mod, but that derives from modern. Since modus vivendi and modus operandi are well-known, maybe some two-word phrase on that pattern would work. IacobusAmor 16:48, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- According to the OED, the word fashion (and its modern cognates) evolved out of factio. Does that help? IacobusAmor 03:07, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Swedish fason 'shape, form; behaviour, manners' seems to be somewhere in the middle of factio and fashion (but for fashion, Swedish uses mode, like many other languages). When looking for a Latin lemma, it seems we have to look elsewhere than to Engl. fashion which represents a special and separate evolution which -- mirabile dictu! -- hasn't been aped by other languages. --Neander 11:44, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- For the bare English 'fashion', Ainsworth's (18th-century) dictionary gives forma, figura. Does that help? IacobusAmor 12:26, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Ainsworth's seems to be aiming at a different sense of the English word "fashion"! (OED 2a: "Make, build, shape. Hence, in wider sense, visible characteristics, appearance") -- although the sense intended by us here has been developing ever since the early 16th century ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:26, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- For the bare English 'fashion', Ainsworth's (18th-century) dictionary gives forma, figura. Does that help? IacobusAmor 12:26, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Swedish fason 'shape, form; behaviour, manners' seems to be somewhere in the middle of factio and fashion (but for fashion, Swedish uses mode, like many other languages). When looking for a Latin lemma, it seems we have to look elsewhere than to Engl. fashion which represents a special and separate evolution which -- mirabile dictu! -- hasn't been aped by other languages. --Neander 11:44, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- According to the OED, the word fashion (and its modern cognates) evolved out of factio. Does that help? IacobusAmor 03:07, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- As a native English-speaker, I've never heard of moda ; it looks related to Latin modus. Of course we have mod, but that derives from modern. Since modus vivendi and modus operandi are well-known, maybe some two-word phrase on that pattern would work. IacobusAmor 16:48, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- I agree that the article on consuetudo needs another title. What it's about is ius non scriptum or lex non scripta. On the other hand, consuetudo is more general than fashion. Cicero defined it as "altera natura", stressing that once a human has internalised a cultural system, it becomes a natural & unquestionable part of one's subjective world. It seems to be extremely difficult to fancy out an exact counterpart to fashion; saeculum qua 'Zeitgeist' needs extra contextual info; mos is a bit too general, too (Pitkäranta offers mos novissimus). The primary meaning of fashion is modus vestiendi, but of course that's not all, and somehow it fails to capture the normative aspect of fashion -- that it doesn't just come about but is (esp. nowadays) created, and a part of the global market economy. Most languages don't do without the international loan word moda. Do we? Should we? --Neander 15:37, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
Habitus? Vestitus??
recensereThe first paragraph of the article that needs Latinizing could be nudging us in the direction of Habitus for the general term and Vestitus for the more particular use. What do you think? Here's the text:
- Fashion, a general term for the style and custom prevalent at a given time, in its most common usage refers to costume or clothing style. The more technical term, costume, has become so linked in the public eye with the term "fashion" that the more general term "costume" has in popular use mostly been relegated to special senses like fancy dress or masquerade wear, while the term "fashion" means clothing generally, and the study of it. This linguistic switch is due to the fashion plates which were produced during the Industrial Revolution, showing the latest designs.[citation needed] For a broad cross-cultural look at clothing and its place in society, refer to the entries for clothing, costume and fabrics. The remainder of this article deals with clothing fashions in the Western world.
If someone would like to create the article, please go ahead, as it's one of the 1000 pages and I'd rather create other articles today. IacobusAmor 12:37, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- I created a stub on moda (and yes, I can quote non-Vicipaedian fontes!). Fashion is such a many-splendored thing that it just can't be captured by such vocabulary flowers as "habitus novus", "mos recentissimus", "opus vestiarium praecipuum", "recentissimus vestiendi mos", "mos novissimus", etc, which obviously have been fashioned out without really trying to write a naturally flowing article on fashion and all its face(t)s. --Neander 00:02, 27 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- I have moved Disputatio:Cultus modus to Disputatio:Moda, to match the latest name of this concept. I have also recreated Cultus modus as a redirect to Moda, because of the many references to the former on our talk pages. --Fabullus 07:45, 27 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- I created a stub on moda (and yes, I can quote non-Vicipaedian fontes!). Fashion is such a many-splendored thing that it just can't be captured by such vocabulary flowers as "habitus novus", "mos recentissimus", "opus vestiarium praecipuum", "recentissimus vestiendi mos", "mos novissimus", etc, which obviously have been fashioned out without really trying to write a naturally flowing article on fashion and all its face(t)s. --Neander 00:02, 27 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
Ubi est pagina?
recenserePaginam disputationis hic habemus, sed pagina ipsa Cultus modus non adest! IacobusAmor 14:22, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Crea igitur. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:49, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Eius creationem habui in animo, ut omnes haberemus paginas 1000! (Vide meas conlationes recentiores.) IacobusAmor 12:26, 26 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
Trend, trendy?
recensereIn any case (relating to notions of fashion), we're getting close to something whose Latin has long puzzled me: the English concept of trend. What would be good Latin for the noun trend and the adjective (much-loved by Koreans trying to speak English) trendy? The latter would seem related to fashionable. None of three English–Latin lexicons that I've checked has these English words, much less the Latin. IacobusAmor 16:48, 21 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Words gives momen, mominis as "movement; impulse; a trend." Morgan has trend / Trend: propensio [Vox Lat.]; tendentia+ [Latham] (HELF.) Mattie 16:28, 27 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Oops, there's also this page that has:
- trend : motus, recentissimus mos (vestiendi, opinandi), recentissima doctrina; proclivitas, inclinatio, propensio
- trendy : de more, quod recentissimi moris est; elegans, elegantissimus
- So we've got quite a few choices! Mattie 16:34, 27 Augusti 2010 (UTC)
- Oops, there's also this page that has:
De modellis
recensereQuid significat hoc verbum arcanum? Quattuordecim commentarii iam habent ostentatrix vel etiam ostentatrix vestium, et quattuor habent ostentator. IacobusAmor 12:52, 4 Septembris 2010 (UTC)
- De modellis, vide hanc symbolam. De ostentatore / ostentatrice, his appellationibus saepe sensus invectivus inesse videtur. --Neander 13:10, 4 Septembris 2010 (UTC)
Quod ad "sensum invectivum" adtinet, censeo significationes omnes verbi ostentandi nobis esse considerandas, cum "ostentator" et "ostentatrix" nomina ab eo derivata sint. Quibus significationibus perpensis, nihil video quod huic usui vocum ostentatoris et ostentatricis contradicat. MARCVS (disputatio) 10:19, 20 Maii 2012 (UTC)