Disputatio:Fossa
De nomine huius paginae
recensere(Copied from: Usor:Rolandus/Most important 1000 pages/Canal):
Nomen quod optime reddat sensum Anglici 'canal' non est 'canalis' sed fossa. Mea sententia pagina quoque Canalis Panamae mutanda est. Propono Fossa Panamensis. --Fabullus 15:06, 1 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
- Heri in cubiculo legi Suetonium qui sic de Druso disserit: "is Drusus ... Oceanum septentrionalem primus Romanorum ducum navigavit transque Rhenum fossas navi et immensi operis effecit, quae nunc adhuc Drusinae vocantur" (Suetonius, De vita Caesarum "Divus Claudius" 1.2.) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:55, 1 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
- ... igitur cum Fossa Panamensis consentio! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 22:55, 1 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
- Auctorem paginae Canalis Panamae certiorem faciam (nam nobis, ut videtur, non licet eam mutare). --Fabullus 04:59, 2 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
- Auctorem paginae Canalis Panamae certiorem faciam (nam nobis, ut videtur, non licet eam mutare). --Fabullus 04:59, 2 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
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- Quoque adest apud Rhenm fossa secunda, quae cum Mossa Rhenum inxit, fossa Corbulonis appellata.--Xaverius 08:34, 5 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
- Although Pliny uses the term to name a particular canal, I am not sure fossa specifically translates a canal per se. It seems to mean any old ditch or dug out hole in the ground, including one in my backyard.--Rafaelgarcia 13:42, 4 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
- Quoque adest apud Rhenm fossa secunda, quae cum Mossa Rhenum inxit, fossa Corbulonis appellata.--Xaverius 08:34, 5 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)
Canalis non fossa
recensereThe word fossa is too general, as Rafael said above. Canalis is not only the form used in all modern languages, but is quite reasonable in Latin as well. I tried the Google test and found all hits for both to be medical; in that context it seems fossa practically means cauum and canalis means specifically a passage for conveying something, which is what we want. I have also heard fossa in geology used to name a ditch of some sort; but that is a natural feature and it seems better to distinguish the artificial, narrow construction with a different word as English does. Pantocrator 12:52, 17 Martii 2010 (UTC)
- Per me movere licet. Vide quid nomen sit aptius in dictionario Lewis & Short, lemmata fossa et canalis. --Fabullus 09:10, 19 Martii 2010 (UTC)
- I agree now. I think Rafael may have hit the nail on the head. The speakers quoted by Pliny could have been nicknaming the canal "Drusus's ditch". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:05, 19 Martii 2010 (UTC)
- Vide quod Ammianus Marcellinus scribit (24.6.1): "Ventum est hinc ad fossile flumen Naarmalcha nomine, quod amnis regum interpretatur, tunc aridum. id antehac Traianus posteaque Severus egesto solo fodiri in modum canalis amplissimi studio curaverat summo, ut aquis illuc ab Euphrate transfusis naves ad Tigridem conmigrarent." (Anglice convertit C.D. Yonge: "From this place they advanced to a canal known as Naharmalcha, a name which means "The River of Kings." It was then dry. Long ago Trajan, and after him Severus, had caused the soil to be dug out, and had given great attention to constructing this as a canal of great size, so that, being filled with water from the Euphrates, it might enable vessels to pass into the Tigris."). Fortasse illud "flumen fossile" aptissimum est, cum etiam 'canalis' nomen ambiguum sit. --Fabullus 11:03, 19 Martii 2010 (UTC)
- Credo 'nos' nimis praecipitanter egisse, cum hanc paginam movimus. Amici nostri apud Ephemeridem non haesitant 'fossae' nomen hoc sensu adhibere, ut eorum appellatio "Fossa Panamiana" [1] indicet. --Fabullus 11:31, 28 Martii 2010 (UTC)
- Vide quod Ammianus Marcellinus scribit (24.6.1): "Ventum est hinc ad fossile flumen Naarmalcha nomine, quod amnis regum interpretatur, tunc aridum. id antehac Traianus posteaque Severus egesto solo fodiri in modum canalis amplissimi studio curaverat summo, ut aquis illuc ab Euphrate transfusis naves ad Tigridem conmigrarent." (Anglice convertit C.D. Yonge: "From this place they advanced to a canal known as Naharmalcha, a name which means "The River of Kings." It was then dry. Long ago Trajan, and after him Severus, had caused the soil to be dug out, and had given great attention to constructing this as a canal of great size, so that, being filled with water from the Euphrates, it might enable vessels to pass into the Tigris."). Fortasse illud "flumen fossile" aptissimum est, cum etiam 'canalis' nomen ambiguum sit. --Fabullus 11:03, 19 Martii 2010 (UTC)
- I agree now. I think Rafael may have hit the nail on the head. The speakers quoted by Pliny could have been nicknaming the canal "Drusus's ditch". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:05, 19 Martii 2010 (UTC)
De genere
recensereIt seems the consensus is that canalis is masculine. Damn; I assumed it was neuter because of Whitaker's. Pantocrator 00:28, 20 Martii 2010 (UTC)
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Haec est disputatio petitoria Vicipaediae quae ad formulam {{Movenda}} attinet, die 21 Octobris 2023 paginae additam. |
I am still not sure about the right translation of “canal”. Fossa can mean a lot of different things and it is not specific to waterways. Colliquiae seem more pertinent to drains or, at most, canals for agriculture (basically a synonym of canalis, but probably dirtier). At the moment the best translation to me seems to be euripus; cfr. Sen., Ep., 83, 5, in which he tells us that he enjoyed celebrating the new year by swimming in the cold canal in January ("[ego], qui kalendis Ianuariis euripum salutabam …"). Morgan for “.ggr Suez Canal” gives Euripus Suesiensis. --Grufo (disputatio) 17:10, 21 Octobris 2023 (UTC)