Disputatio:Expiscatio
Latest comment: abhinc 11 menses by Grufo in topic "tesserarum indagatio"
Equidem putarim accuratiore imagine Latina opus esse. Itaque lemma mutavi. --Neander 02:24, 4 Augusti 2008 (UTC)
"tesserarum indagatio"
recensereThe term "tesserarum indagatio" seems obscure, and not at all common even on the greater WWW. I am somehow also not seeing any other instance of it in Latin Wikipedia (?). A link or reference to explain what is meant would be very helpful. Toddcs (disputatio) 09:58, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- I think the main problem was the word indagatio. I just replaced it with acquisitio. Tessera usually means “password”. --Grufo (disputatio) 10:26, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- Acquisitio (adquisitio) isn't in Cassell's, whereas indagatio is, given as a Latin word for English search, alongside investigatio, inquisitio, and exploratio, with the warning "often rendered by verb," perhaps suggesting the phrase tessera indaganda (investiganda, inquirenda, exploranda). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:05, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- It is a late word, but not absent:
- “acquisitio” apud C. T. Lewis et C. Short (1879). A Latin Dictionary. Oxoniae: Oxford University Press
- “acquisitio” apud F. Gaffiot (1934). Dictionnaire illustré latin-français. Hachette. p. 24
- What I find useful is that we write that phishing is the actual stealing, not just the attempt to steal (and indagare only suggests the attempt). I think that something in the direction of latrocinium would be the ideal. --Grufo (disputatio) 14:29, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- The word is absent from Cassell's, whose point, explicitly stated in its introduction, is to list the words that modern writers will use if they want to effect a classical style. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:34, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- More than the particular word, I am interested in the concept (i.e. “phishing is the appropriation...”), so a synonym will do. The verb acquirere was classical, the noun acquisitio indeed was attested a bit later. --Grufo (disputatio) 15:44, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- Me too. Hadn't seen this page before, but I don't see any justification for inventing "expiscatio" (if that's what we have done) rather than using "piscatio" or "hamatio". Of the two I would propose "hamatio" because it means dangling a hook and catching something. "Hamatio tesserarum" is almost self-explanatory; "hamatio" would serve alone once the reader understands the term. As pagename I suggest "Hamatio (interrete)". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:03, 24 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- Expiscatio, apparently a postclassical development from expiscari 'to fish out, search out, find out', can be found on the internet in good Latin contexts (hint: search for expiscationem), including this one, in YLE Colloquia Latina eighteen years ago:
- primum tibi ago gratias propter celerrimum rescriptum et expiscationem errorum mei nuntii, quem ut possum emendabo
- For the idea of phishing = 'a fishing out', it seems pertinent and not unclever. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:33, 25 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- I don't have strong opinions about this. The interlingua argument would lean towards a compound noun from piscare. But then there are the classical verbs allicere/illicere/pellicere – which however don't have the derived nouns *allectio/*illectio/*pellectio (-onis), as far as I know. Something similar can be said about *hamatio, for which only the participle of a verb is attested, as far as I know (hamatus). However, in general, I believe that we should always consider adding -io, -ionis to past participles as productive processes, so that we don't need permission from sources to create those (and so if we have hamatus we should be free to create hamatio, -onis). Concerning the title, among the alternatives, I probably prefer Hamatio (interrete), but as mentioned earlier it is not a strong preference. --Grufo (disputatio) 13:52, 25 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- Addition. The last comment from Iacobus made me think that we should not discard expiscatio too fast. --Grufo (disputatio) 14:00, 25 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- Expiscatio, apparently a postclassical development from expiscari 'to fish out, search out, find out', can be found on the internet in good Latin contexts (hint: search for expiscationem), including this one, in YLE Colloquia Latina eighteen years ago:
- Me too. Hadn't seen this page before, but I don't see any justification for inventing "expiscatio" (if that's what we have done) rather than using "piscatio" or "hamatio". Of the two I would propose "hamatio" because it means dangling a hook and catching something. "Hamatio tesserarum" is almost self-explanatory; "hamatio" would serve alone once the reader understands the term. As pagename I suggest "Hamatio (interrete)". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:03, 24 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- More than the particular word, I am interested in the concept (i.e. “phishing is the appropriation...”), so a synonym will do. The verb acquirere was classical, the noun acquisitio indeed was attested a bit later. --Grufo (disputatio) 15:44, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- The word is absent from Cassell's, whose point, explicitly stated in its introduction, is to list the words that modern writers will use if they want to effect a classical style. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:34, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)
- It is a late word, but not absent:
- Acquisitio (adquisitio) isn't in Cassell's, whereas indagatio is, given as a Latin word for English search, alongside investigatio, inquisitio, and exploratio, with the warning "often rendered by verb," perhaps suggesting the phrase tessera indaganda (investiganda, inquirenda, exploranda). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:05, 19 Novembris 2023 (UTC)