Disputatio:Pseudohistoria Vincentii Bunei

Wikipedian infamy on V. Bune etc.

-To A.Dalby, I.Amor et al.- erasors & persecutors on V. Bune (& on G. Menzies ...etc.):

• 1. You evidently ignore what means a true 'theory' (it is result of wiki-antielitism): this on Bune's sailing may be only named a thesis or hypothesis .

• 2. You can find even more abundant details on such Dalmatian overseas naming, elaborated in dozen comparable articles of other independent wikis, e.g. in Russian Wikislavia (wikislavia.volgota.com), in Croatian Wikislavia (hr.volgota.com) - and the most detailed and exhaustive in the new Adriatic-Chakavian wiki (chak.volgota.com/index.php/Main_Page) -encyclopaedia being accessible on the net shortly after New year 2008.

• 3. V. Bune is evident and clear to other independent scientists out of westernized Wikipedia; but you are true 'wikipedists' and also Westerners, and so ideologically cannot accept at all that an 'obscure Dalmatian Slav' may be prior to the glorious and powerful Western colonialists: this is the essential problem, for you rigidly believe that only victors must write history and create public opinion.

• 4. For the same dogmat reasons, some other independent and objective wikis e.g. giant Chinese Baidu-Baike, also big Russian Wikislavia, Pan-European Metapedia [1], and Wikipilipinas, all ones abandoned out of such Wikipedia - and now together they have yet nearly 3,000,000 articles (including abundantly & iteratively V. Bune)!

• 5. For future public insights on your revisionist 'history', these dishonest manipulations with V. Bune accross Wikipedias, all are copied and reproduced in above non-wikipedist 4 eastern encyclopedias for next readers! --Former user:GeoLatina, December 30, 2007

Thanks, GeoLatina. Precise citations of the relevant articles could be added here: it would be useful to document the spread of belief in Bune's explorations.

For comments on your other points, see Disputatio:Vincentius Buneus. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:38, 29 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

One can find now all new & former data and their analyses on V. Bune, published by a studying group of - M. Rac, M.H. Mileković et al.: V.B. Petrov and other Croatian navigators in medieval oceans. Proc. 3 scient. symposia 'Early Croats' (2001-2006), 820 p., ITG - Zagreb 2007. --GeoLatina, II Januarii MMVIII

An afterthought: three questions that you might be able to help with. Can you maybe explain the meaning and origin of the terms "Old Veyan" and "Gan-Veyan" used by Yoshamya? In what language is the book Gan-Veyan written? And, did that symposium in Tehran really focus on the theme that the Croats have an Old Iranian origin? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:36, 29 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

Next are the available informations on your above questions:

• This Yoshamya's book Gan-Veyan (1224 p.) is poliglott, i.e. 1/4 of them is a major digest in French & English with English-NeoLiburnic-English glossary (11,700 words), and 1/2 is in Croatian with including Grammar & complete inverse glossaries (27,500 words). Then 1/5 in book are the examples of original folk songs, tales, and legends with English & Croat translation, and the rest is their bio-genetics, etc.
• In this local archidiom Veyan means native or domicil (and may be ancient isoglosse of the Vedic veyah and Avestan vaejo), and gan = language (also gan in Vedas ?), i.e. Gan-Veyan is litteraly: 'Native Language'.
• This Iranian symposium 1998 & proceedings of 1999 were really focused on possible Persian origin of earliest Croats, and also 3 subsequent symposia (2001-2006) on this topic completed these analyses. Now their general conclusions may be: after linguists' consensus, Croatian name is undoubtely not Slavic nor European, but of Indo-Iranian origin. New biogenetic data suggest that these leading Indo-Iranians were a ruling minority then slavicised. The original genomic Slavs in Croatia are also a relative minority of 1/4 to 1/3, and the majority (about 1/2) are the aborigine genetic descendants of ancient Illyrians - now mostly slavicized there. This may be a similar case as romanicized leading Franks in France with genomic majority of Gauls, or as in Bulgaria with also slavicised minoritary Bulgars & abundant Thracians, etc. --GeoLatina, II Januarii MMVIII

Biogenetic links

I retrieved now the following interesting paragraph in: Wikislavia (hr.volgota.com & also: chak.volgota.com), that may become important in a short time for the current wiki-controversies about V. Bune & Yoshamya's (copy follows)

The newest biogenetic analyses of DNA in Dalmatians (chiefly at port Makarska and Hvar island), among other expectable European haplogroups, there detected also quite exotic genoms very rare or absent elsewhere in Europe - but the same one is abundant and dominant far away in SE Asian populations including Indochina, Indonesia etc. That implyes really: among all Europeans, old Dalmatians justly had the most intense direct (sexual) contacts with SE Asia, resulting both by these biogenetic and by above naming links (Anthropological Institute, Zagreb: in press).--GeoLatina, II Januarii MMVIII

Versionem Anglicam huius commentationis ...

... hic, lectore aliquo postulante, subiungo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:31, 22 Februarii 2021 (UTC)

The real life of Vice Bune can be read on the page Vincentius Bune. What follows is the pseudohistory of Vice Bune. The original work on this subject appears to have been written either by the teacher called “Mitjeel Yoshamya” or by his son, a writer on the origins and history of the Croats. Out of that work a narrative of the voyages of Vice Bune has been spread on the internet with the aim of rewriting the history of the exploration of the Pacific islands. It is claimed that the names of some of these islands originate in the Croatian names of the Adriatic islands. [Note 1]

It is claimed that Bune spent some time in Goa; [Note 2] that from there during the years 1580 to 1597 he sailed to the Philippine Islands (then a Spanish possession) to explore Melanesia; that from the Philippines he explored the northern and eastern coasts of New Guinea, today part of Papua New Guinea; that he then continued his expedition into the open Pacific as far as the Bismarck archipelago and the Solomon islands (“Saloma”), where he founded a trading post on “Velakula” island; that on his last Pacific expedition, 1594 to 1597, he took a south-easterly direction and became the first European to discover the New Hebrides (today Vanuatu); that his Pacific explorations ended at the island “Matas” in the southern New Hebrides in 1597; and that from 1598 he was in Central America as an emissary of the kingdom of Spain in Mexico.

Note 1. E. Ambrosius, Andrees allgemeine Handatlas, Auflage VIII/5 (Bielefeld, Leipzig: Velhagen & Klasing, 1930) maps 216-224 are given as sources for these names. [Two pages from WikiPilipinas are then cited – the site still exists, but these pages appear to have been deleted.]

Note 2. [The link given here to GoaNow is a deadlink.]