Disputatio:Nomina universitatum Latina decreto ascita

I think we're probably going to have to go through this and change all the locations from the format "..., Lutetia, Francia" to "..., Lutetiae in Francia" which seems much more logical in Latin. --Iustinus 00:22 iul 21, 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, Roland2 moved one of my source links to a footnote... but none of the others are int that format. I'm about to add a comment in a footnote, but I don't know that footnotes are necessary if we're just linking to a source (it seems like kind of a waste of effort, both from the point of view of the writers, and the readers). What do you think, fellow Wikipedians? If we're going to make this page consistant, which way shoudl it go? --Iustinus 06:07, 24 Augusti 2006 (UTC)

Orationes X ALF Conventus

Roland2 asks if http://www.tekhnai.es/alfconventus/orationes.htm is a valid source. By the rules I've been using, no. I'm trying to avoid forms that have been used by Neo-Latinists, unless I can back them up in official university sources. Official university sources would include seals (of course) and official publications (many universities publish journals or books with Latin titles, e.g. Acta Universitatis Nephelococcygiensis). Non-official but attested forms might be useful for the proposed Index universitatum page (and they're also a useful place to start when you're looking for an official form), but they aren't really appropriate for this page. --Iustinus 18:45, 28 Augusti 2006 (UTC)

Westminster

To repeat what I just posted elsewhere, my source on the Latin name Collegium Westmonasterium is personal conversation with Albertus Castro, head of the Westminster College Classics department. He was asked by the university to create an official Latin name for them. At first he suggested the more logical Collegium Westmonasteriense, but they told him it would be too long to put on a seal (more likely it would be too long for them to remember!) so he went with the current name, putting the college and its name in apposition. Now, to my knowledge, no online source confirms this name, and offhand I do not have a print source either. So on en: this change would have to be thrown out as unverifiable. But I'm hoping that for the purposes of la: you will take me at my word that I got this from the horse's mouth, so to speak. --Iustinus 00:54, 19 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)

Good news! Albertus is considering contributing an image of the Latin seal. That would be awsome. --Iustinus 21:12, 19 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)

Die 5 Novembris 1617: "Collegium Westmonasteriense excipit custodem sigilli et regni iudices prandio perlauto, ubi custos sigilli munificem se praebuit alumnis regiis."—http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/diary/2lat.html. IacobusAmor 20:19, 16 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Excellent! But per my comment at #Orationes X ALF Conventus, perhaps we shouldn't count that. Camden is a hell of a lot more impressive than ALF, at least in terms of "officiality," but it's still not a university source. Furthermore, this isn't the same Westminster College. Also, I should probably nag Dr. Castro about this again. --Iustinus 20:34, 16 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Sources

First of all, thanks to Harissimo for taking the time to move all URL citations to inline refs. I've been meaning to do that since about a year ago (see above), but didn't want to bother with the grunt work. So I am grateful someone else showed the initiative to do this. Second of all, when I get the time I REALLY need to come up with an "Official Names" tag for pages like this, and the various names-by-profession pages I've done, explaining that all these names come from reliable sources and nothing should be added to the list without a good citation. Problem is that then I would be obligated to go back through these lists and provide all my sources. I did look up all the names, but these pages were started before there was an easy way to do citations, so I didn't bother to keep track. Looking up all the original sources again would be long and frustrating, especially for pages like astronomus. But perhaps there's some middle ground that can be used in the interim. --Iustinus 19:03, 16 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

NOT UNIVERSITIES

But probably worth keeping an interim list: --Iustinus 18:33, 10 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

• Collegium Medicorum Familiae Canadense[1] The College of Family Physicians of Canada
• Schola Latina Chicaginiensis[2] The Latin School of Chicago

De paginae titulo

(Quae sequuntur hunc removi ex Taberna)--Ceylon 14:43, 13 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

Index universitatum nominibus Latinis constitutis, shouldn't this be Index universitatum nominibus Latinis constitutarum? --Alex1011 00:58, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

No. You must be assuming a different meaning for constituere than I intended. The idea is "universities with decided/set/agreed-upon Latin names." --Iustinus 17:53, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

He may merely have been wanting to apply it to a different noun: 'established universities with Latin names'. IacobusAmor 19:26, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

..."constitutum" in the sense of "conditum". Now it is an ablativus qualitatis? --Alex1011 20:02, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. The whole point of that page is to gather officially established names (which is why I have to revert it so often!) --Iustinus 19:21, 8 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

Maybe less reverting would be needed if the page name were a little clearer. While the construction eunuchus nomine Pothinus ('a eunuch called Pothinus') is quite common, I doubt that the ablativus qualitatis (which in fact tends to denote qualities rather than attributes) can be stretched that far. I would suggest Nomina universitatum Latina decreto adoptata.--Ceylon 18:32, 9 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

Registres du Conseil de Genève

S·univerſitatisˣciviumˣGebennarum ˣ

State universities

Quite a few states in CFA (e.g., California, Florida, Indiana) distinguish between their public universities and their public state universities. Do we therefore distinguish between, say, Universitas Floridensis (The University of Florida) and Universitas Civitatis Floridensis (Florida State University)? ¶ And why is the main public university in Indiana backward—Indianensis Universitas instead of Universitas Indianensis? IacobusAmor 14:11, 1 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

Um, recall that the purpose of this page is to gather Latin names used in official sources. So we use "Indianensis Universitas" because that's what it says on the seal. I don't know what to do about distinguishing "University of X" from "X State University"; I don't believe we have any official attestations to work from. But obviously that's a problem for another page, until we do. --Iustinus 04:53, 2 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

Right: but since the point is to list attested uses, shouldn't the article have a footnote directing readers to the attestation of each term? IacobusAmor 14:23, 2 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

It should, yes, but this is a very old article that started before the built-in coding for footnotes had been implemented, so there are many items that never got an explicit citation. That's on my list of things to do. --Iustinus 05:18, 3 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, I guess there may be a few cases where the title of our article will differ from this official name, for some good reason. (But always with a redirect, of course.)

As to the public and public-state distinction, let's hope that, in cases where it matters, the universities concerned will have made the distinction somehow in their official Latin names. Then we'll have no problem. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:34, 2 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

O what a happy thought! One tries not to be cynical, but one doubts that they'll all have taken the trouble to give themselves Latin titles! IacobusAmor 14:26, 2 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

Well, in principle if we find even one such citation we can extend it to other unatested "state" universities. --Iustinus 05:18, 3 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

I think the Vicipaedia practice so far, of indicating state by either civica, or publica, is preferable, because it indicates the level of public ownership and management more clearly. Using 'Civitatis' as in Universitas civitatis pennsilvaniensis would translate verbatim to 'Pensylvanian University of the citizenship' or 'university of the pensylvanian state'. Examples of current Vicipaedia usage: Universitas Civica Pennsilvaniensis (not actually run by the state but the state subsidizes tuition of in-state residents) and Universitas Publica Petropolitana (actually run by the state). I don't think that the string of two adjectives is objectionable here since these are proper names.--Rafaelgarcia 13:59, 2 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

De: "Using 'Civitatis' as in Universitas civitatis pennsilvaniensis would translate verbatim to 'Pensylvanian University of the citizenship' or 'university of the pensylvanian state'."—Excellent! The latter has exactly the same sense as 'Pennsylvania State University.' (To get the sense of 'Pennsylvanian University of the State,' we might want to follow standard classical word order and say Pennsilvaniensis Civitatis Universitas, or less mistakably Pennsilvaniana Civitatis Universitas, neither of which we want.) IacobusAmor 14:15, 2 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

That's a good point about the word order. Nevertheless, I hesitate to approve Universitas civitatis pennsilvaniensis, because it seems to imply ownership, administration by the state, or some official and unique status... The "state" nature of "state universities" varies widely by state; there is often more than one public university in a given state. In particular, Penn State University functions as a private university in Pennsylvania and there are many private universities in Pennsylvania that are subsidised more highly on a per student basis by the state of Pennsylvania today. Thus it seems unfair to call this one "the university of the pennsylvanian state". See for example en:Commonwealth System of Higher Education.--Rafaelgarcia 18:20, 2 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

Civitatis isn't as bad as all that, but Civica is just brilliant. --Iustinus 05:18, 3 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Rafael: I hadn't expected a state university to be a private university! so then, yes, Civica Universitas Pennsilvaniensis, Civica Universitas Floridiensis, Civica Universitas Californiensis apud Sacramentum etc. could be usefully ambiguous for all of them. I'm not sure a distinction between civicus & publicus would be immediately transparent. IacobusAmor 14:14, 3 Ianuarii 2009 (UTC)

"Fixed typo, Fixed grammar," &c.

Care, 107.127.39.6, utens ignote, dixisti "Fixed typo, Fixed grammar, Added links, adding more info." The first two clauses seem untrue, and the second two seem to refer to material not ordinarily found in Vicipaedia, so your fixes & additions have been reverted. (Magistrates, where have you been?) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:55, 21 Maii 2022 (UTC)