Disputatio:Lingua Finnica

Latinizatio Solita

Here is what my original source says:

Ea nomina, quae verti non possunt, Latine declinavi: Ahto -onis, Kullervo -onis, Sariola -ae, Hiisi -sis, Väinämöinen -möinis, Lemminkäinen -käinis, Ilmarinen -rinis, etc., ut apud nostrates assolet.

--Tuomo Pekkanen, Kalevala Latina, p. 14

Does anyone else have sources on this? Because otherwise I fear we really will need to revert the chart, or at least bring it in line with what Mr. Pekkanen says. Afterall, if anyone should know how Finns usually decline their names in Latin, it would be him. (And do note that -en -is declention. Seems counter-intuitive to use, but he seems quite clearly to be saying that's how it's done). --Iustinus 23:34, 23 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

We used his work as a basis and we haven't changed of any of what he said, only added to it using equivalent words in latin (pargas, pargae and the rest are all variations of Pekkanen's -a, -ae rule). If you're desperate, maybe I could mail Nuntii Latini and the e-mail crew may even be able to speak to Pekkanen himself? --Harrissimo 23:46, 23 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I guess his -en, -inis was like nomen -inis, but Kaskinen would sound bad as Kaskininis (as Neander said in the Taberna) - so one of the -ins is removed. --Harrissimo 23:48, 23 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Harrissimo, my **Kaskininis was a mistake, as Iovis Fulmen perceptively pointed out. I speak Finnish, but that doesn't make me an authority of Latino-Finnish. But contacting the Nuntii Latini people would be a good idea. --Neander 02:02, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

He regularly does all -en names as -en -is not *-inis. I don't think it's for euphonic purposes. Buuuuut... I do suspect that using *-inis would have screwed up the Kalevala meter. Note that normally -en -inis nouns are neuter, with the m/f equivalent being -o -inis. So in any case, the -inis on the chart wasn't in line. He also doesn't expressly mention -aa, -ä, or -ää, though that might be based off of examples from the Kalevala Latina. I should check. --Iustinus 01:24, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

The -aa, -ää, -ä, -as forms are all "invented" by me, IacobusAmor, Iovis Fulmen and Neander in the taberna. I will contact the N.L. some time tomorrow, but I expect they won't be über-prompt repling. I bid you all a good night. --Harrissimo 02:28, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

OK, just noticed Disputatio Usoris:Harrissimo#Declension of Finnish names. Glad you haven't been doing this haphazardly. So I think really all we need to do is footnote the chart better, which I'll start doing. --Iustinus 03:29, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

OK, in the previous conversation betwen Harrissimo and Iovis Fulmen the name Hälläpyörä was raised as an example of a -ä word, but the Kalevala locus was not posted, for fear that it would be nominative. But obsessively I went and checked, and sure enough it's nominative: "Amnes tres rapaciores ... Hälläpyöä Tavastorum..." (3.175, 3.179). Not terribly helpful, but I wanted to share anyway. --Iustinus 04:03, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Hang on a second, I think there may have been a huge misunderstanding. I meant names of places (cities, towns etc.) when I asked for the table and all of the places I wrote in the table are names of cities. I guess I didn't name my discussions very well... Are they still valid? --Harrissimo 12:37, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I know. But these rules apply to all proper nouns, and this is the article on Lingua Finnica not Loca in Finnia, so we may as well keep it general. --Iustinus 15:08, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

OK. Thank goodness... --Harrissimo 16:45, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I have some questions:

• If there is a Latin version of the first name (e.g. Jussi = Iohannes) should it be used? If I want to say "of Tarja Halonen" for example would I use Tarjae Halonis, Dariae Halonis, Tarjae Halonen or Dariae Halonen? --Harrissimo 21:25, 26 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I would say in general yes, you should use the Latin form, unless we have reason to believe the subject of the article prefers the more Finnic version (e.g. Tuomo Pekkanen, who has been known to use Tuomo even in Latin.) --Iustinus 22:42, 26 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

bcdfg

"Litterae BCDFG in verbis finnicis non apparent." is not right. Both D and G are used in the standard Finnish orthography for native Finnish words. G however only appears in the digraph ng. --Anonymous

Thanks! I fixed it.-- Ioscius ^∞ 08:01, 21 Octobris 2010 (UTC)