Disputatio:Insulae (urbs Franciae)
Latest comment: abhinc 5 annos by Andrew Dalby in topic Insula vel Insulae
Insula vel Insulae
recensereI'm not sure whether to move to "Insulae" was the best option. I put the "FD ref" because the initial title wasn't backed up by the source that was given, but now thanks to Andrew we know that the singular is attested, too. Both French "Lille" (from "l'île" - the island) and Dutch "Rijsel" (from "ter ijsel" - on the island) are based on a singular, and I have a suspicion that the plural "Insulae" likewise is a reinterpetation of a genitive singular (urbs insulae). The French wiki tells us that the name is due to the fact that the town was founded on an island in the river Deûle (just one, not several). So, given that we have a source now, "Insula" might make more sense. Sigur (disputatio) 10:29, 6 Octobris 2019 (UTC)
- It was attested as Insulæ and Insula and Lila (in that order) in the year 1712. Also, the same page has: "Illa, Ella Fluvius. Lille." And some pages later we read: "Lila, Insulæ. Lille." IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:40, 6 Octobris 2019 (UTC)
- We had never bothered to look for citations at all. It might have been better to find more than one before moving! My initial impression is that the two choices are about equally popular, so I feel neutral. I notice that for the medieval philosopher the usual names are "Alanus ab Insulis" and "Alanus de Insulis": the singular variants are much more uncommon. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:16, 6 Octobris 2019 (UTC)
- PS -- I find Sigur's etymological suggestion (genitive or locative -ae being reinterpreted as plural) quite convincing. I have never seen the French name spelled Lilles or Lisles, and if there is a real plural at the root of this name you would expect to see that spelling sometimes. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:12, 6 Octobris 2019 (UTC)
- I must say that I'm now tempted to let the philosopher tip the balance, too. After all, I've chosen "Kempae" over "Kempena" elsewhere because of Thomas a Kempis. Sigur (disputatio) 14:49, 6 Octobris 2019 (UTC)
- OK, Alain of Lille wins. I've moved the relevant categories. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:34, 9 Octobris 2019 (UTC)
- I must say that I'm now tempted to let the philosopher tip the balance, too. After all, I've chosen "Kempae" over "Kempena" elsewhere because of Thomas a Kempis. Sigur (disputatio) 14:49, 6 Octobris 2019 (UTC)