Disputatio:Genovefa Cigna

Nomen nativum: Луиза Женевьева Чинья

Given that she was born in France of Italian extraction, why is her birth name given in Russian? Toddcs (disputatio) 13:40, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

@Toddcs: Again, you are probably complaining about some information that is not located on Latin Wikipedia (although at d:Q447882 I read “Louise Geneviève Cigna” as birth name). --Grufo (disputatio) 13:59, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

@Grufo

Sorry about that.

But please, let's not call it complaining, just commenting.

There is a huge difference!

It is very strange that I see something in Latin Wikipedia different than you see. Already twice.

I am not doing anything unusual. just viewing Latin Wikipedia using the Wikipedia Beta version app on my Android mobile phone device. Toddcs (disputatio) 14:07, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

@Toddcs: No need to be sorry! Of course, I did not mean it bad when I said “complaining”; the emphasis was on “some information that is not located on Latin Wikipedia”. And of course you are not doing anything wrong using the beta app. What I mean is that most people who are active here don't even see what you see. My suggestion concerning any information located on Wikidata is: just fix it, without opening a discussion (unless you really have doubts). And if you do choose to open a discussion here concerning a Latin section of Wikidata, always specify that you are not talking about a text located here, but about a text located on Wikidata (otherwise people will start searching for it here). --Grufo (disputatio) 14:24, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

@Grufo

No worries, thanks for clarifying in detail.

I don't use Wikidata. Anything I write in a comment on the talk page of a Wikipedia article pertains directly and only to the article on Wikipedia, not in Wikidata or anywhere else.

Thanks again. It's all good. We are all working toward the same noble goals. (At least I feel that we are.) Toddcs (disputatio) 14:40, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

But even if you don't use Wikidata, Latin Wikipedia uses Wikidata. So if something is wrong there it gets copied and pasted verbatim here. There is no way to fix it besides editing Wikidata. I understand that sometimes the poor quality of Wikidata entries can be annoying, but the good thing of Wikidata is that it is very easy to fix (every piece of information is concise). --Grufo (disputatio) 14:45, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, not exactly, I'd say. I think we always mark off Vicidata information from Vicipaedia information, don't we? As for whether this beta app distinguishes the two or not, we may find out (below) ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:17, 24 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

@Grufo

Do you at least see the Russian in the title of my comment on the talk page, to which you responded? I cut and pasted that line into my comment title directly from Latin Wikipedia on my mobile device. Toddcs (disputatio) 14:14, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I see it here in the talk page. But after seeing your comment I tried to access the article using my phone, and there I did not see any Russian name. I have no idea where it came from. --Grufo (disputatio) 14:18, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

@Grufo Thanks for that elaboration. I assume you do not have Russian configured as one of your primary Wikipedia languages. But I do. That might explain, at least partially, why you don't see what I see. Toddcs (disputatio) 14:43, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

Probably that is the reason. The Latin text is missing, so Wikidata might pick what it feels closer to you. But this is just a guess. --Grufo (disputatio) 14:46, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

A Russian name, Луиза Женевьева Чинья, was added to Wikidata under the heading "native name/nomen nativum" by an editor with a Russian name in 2020; it was silly of course, but apparently nobody noticed. It was replaced with her French name by a wiser editor just a month ago. The same Russian-named editor added a Cyrillic "label" to the Wikidata page, Джина Чинья, at about the same time. That was more reasonable -- multilingual labels are accepted, even required -- and it remains, alongside Chinese and Arabic and other labels. If Toddcs saw that longer Russian name, it has now gone; but the shorter label remains, and Toddcs's own choice would explain why Grufo and I don't see that at the head of our page but Toddcs does. But, whatever its odd multilingual quirks, Wikidata is a useful site.

If the name was in the Vicidata box, several editors have complained about aspects of this box. I designed it years ago with "Res apud Vicidata repertae" and the Wikidata logo and a shaded box and a different font size, all to try to show that it is not Vicipaedia information, but those editors complained anyway. The shortest way, if it really seems unacceptable to have it on the same page as our text, is to propose on the Taberna that we don't show the Vicidata box any more (but those editors didn't go on and do that!) Myself, I think the benefits outweigh the defects. In particular, it has brought us many useful portrait images that we had not added to our pages. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:13, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)

Now I've just looked at this Gina Cigna page on my mobile, and the Vicidata box is marked off by colour and design and font, and it says "Res apud Vicidata repertae", just as in my original design. I'm very pleased. Just under the page title I see a small link to Wikidata (headed: "Wikidata") with Gina Cigna as the label: but maybe if I chose Russian I would see her Cyrillic name, again headed "Wikidata". If, Toddcs, you see on your mobile what I see on mine, I think you are being unobservant if you don't notice any of that. But you talk of an app, so perhaps you see something different. Can you send me a screenshot of what you see? If the app fails to distinguish between Wikidata and Vicipaedia, that's certainly undesirable, but heaven knows whether we could get the app people to change anything! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:30, 23 Octobris 2023 (UTC)