Disputatio Auxilii:Lingua
How to say "French"
recensereThis is a perennial issue with Latinists. In my opinion this is how it should go, at least when speaking formally:
- Lingua Gallica = Gaulish
- Lingua Franca, Lingua Francica = Frankish
- Lingua Francogallica = French
However, less formally it is perfectly OK to use the terms more loosely. Such is frequently done in Latin writings, and at Conventicula, but I would suggest we avoid it for Wikipedia purposes, because here it behooves us to be meticulous about such things.
The same applies, more or less, to the peoples: Galli, Franci, Francogalli, but here I tend to hear even more interchange. Now, when it comes to naming the country, I tend to think the other way: Gallia for any period, Francia from the establishment of the Frankish kingdom to the present; honestly once the Franks have taken over it seems silly to distinguish. And Francogallia as the name of the country seems downright daft to me: the territory has not changed, just the language. --Iustinus 22:14, 20 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I'd be happy to stick to lingua Francogallica for French; I haven't always been consistent on this till now and have sometimes said Francice.
- Just for the record, Lingua Franca doesn't suit "Frankish". Lingua Franca is the real medieval-to-early-modern name (occasionally in older English called "the Frank tongue") for the lingua franca or sailors' pidgin of the Mediterranean, now apparently extinct, though it may have influenced other pidgins, creoles and argots before dying out. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 22:23, 20 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)
- I was under the impression that that usage was derived from the meaning "Frankish," perhaps after that language fell out of use. BUt as long as I am meticulously distinguishing Gaulish, Frankish, and French when two of those langauges are long extinct, I may as well keep that distinction too! --Iustinus 22:32, 20 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)
- The word is linked historically, naturally, but the eventual meaning is quite different, agreeing better with the sense in which "Franks" was used in medieval writings about the Crusades etc. Lingua Franca was in basis a Romance language, with practically no Germanic elements (but some Greek and Arabic), whereas Frankish (which, yes, disappeared some centuries earlier) was a Germanic language. It occurs to me that this had better go into an article on Lingua Franca, not into a talk page! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:33, 21 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)
- I was under the impression that that usage was derived from the meaning "Frankish," perhaps after that language fell out of use. BUt as long as I am meticulously distinguishing Gaulish, Frankish, and French when two of those langauges are long extinct, I may as well keep that distinction too! --Iustinus 22:32, 20 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)