Disputatio Usoris:Rolandus/List2

Intro

Rolandus, it might be convenient to have subpages for the discussion of not-yet-created articles. Could you maybe program your script so that if you click on the Schlägel und eisen pic (for example) it automatically creates, say, [[Usor:Rolandus/Most important 1000 pages/(whatever the name is on en)]]? I don't know how difficult that would be to do, but it would be a great way to get work started. --Iustinus 18:16, 18 Martii 2008 (UTC)

Done ... but needs better formatting. --Rolandus 18:40, 18 Martii 2008 (UTC)

Any idea why Ferdowsi (and possibly others) has neither the symbol nor a link? --Iustinus 02:39, 19 Martii 2008 (UTC)

We have a page Firdausi (see the last column). Only pages we do not have yet, do have a symbol (now with a link TALK). If an existing page needs discussion it should take place on the (standard) talk page of that created page. In this case Disputatio:Firdausi. --Rolandus 07:27, 19 Martii 2008 (UTC)

Oh, so we do. Don't know how I missed that: it doesn't have a "from simple" link, but that's no excuse. --Iustinus 08:22, 19 Martii 2008 (UTC)

If it has no "from simple" link, this (mostly) means, that simple: does not have an interwiki link to la:. The dump from simple: is outdated, so it is just a guess ... ;-)

Fundamentalismum, rem novam, hodie addidimus. IacobusAmor 14:24, 27 Martii 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I have added it to Usor:Rolandus/Existing pages. --Rolandus 19:49, 27 Martii 2008 (UTC)

You seem to have missed Abortus. IacobusAmor 18:06, 31 Martii 2008 (UTC)

Thanks --Rolandus 18:26, 31 Martii 2008 (UTC)

Weight

Rolande, an important part of the formula that has inspired us here is the weighting it gives to the compactness of each language. The author of the formula apparently had nothing in Latin to compare with English, so he used a default weight of 1.0, the same as that of English; however, as we all know, Latin is terser than English. If the formula compensated for that by weighting Latin more heavily (1.1? 1.2? 1.3?), then Latin's rank in the list would almost certainly rise! On that point, I've entered this note over in the wiki where the formula is found:

At the moment, the formula gives Latin the default weight of 1.0 (see the asterisk). But in every example I've seen where Latin & English appear on facing pages, the Latin is more compact: if the parallel texts are printed in identical faces, sizes, and spacings, the Latin always takes up (say) 80 to 90 percent of the space that the English does. Shouldn't Latin's weight in this formula therefore be greater than 1.0?

Can you pursue this issue? You might be able to improve Latin's position merely by getting the formula adjusted! IacobusAmor 17:11, 6 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

271 characters:

Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins
as we forgive those who sin against us.
Save us from the time of trial
and deliver us from evil.
Amen.

312 characters:

Vater unser im Himmel,
geheiligt werde dein Name.
Dein Reich komme.
Dein Wille geschehe,
wie im Himmel so auf Erden.
Unser tägliches Brot gib uns heute.
Und vergib uns unsere Schuld,
wie auch wir vergeben unseren Schuldigern.
Und führe uns nicht in Versuchung,
sondern erlöse uns von dem Bösen.
Amen.

321 characters:

Pater noster, qui es in caelis,
sanctificetur nomen tuum.
Adveniat regnum tuum.
Fiat voluntas tua,
sicut in caelo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie,
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris.
Et ne nos inducas in tentationem,
sed libera nos a malo.
Amen.

What shall we do? The opposite seems to be true ;-) --Rolandus 17:37, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

No, the opposite isn't true: it's just that the Pater Noster is a terrible text to use for a model! In the first place, it's too short, way too short. In the second place, the standard English translation (with the penultimate line "Lead us not into temptation" instead of this weird "Save us from the time of trial") doesn't use any articles (a, an, the), which most English passages of more than a dozen words do but Latin never does. In the third place, translations of this text tend to be extremely literal & simple—which means that their lengths won't show the kinds of differences that idioms would bring into play. ¶ Anyway, the guy who seems to be managing the formula over there has agreed to make up for Latin's terseness by rating Latin at 1.1, instead of 1.0. IacobusAmor 19:20, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

I agree that isn't the best way to judge. I would use an average drawn from a couple of pages of Caesar and Newton.

Also, That our father in english isn't the standard one, maybe simple english?

I get:

290 characters:

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. 
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
Amen.

--Rafaelgarcia 19:47, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

I've drawn up some character counts from 5 Latin works and their English translations at Usor:Harrissimo/Weight. I have no idea how to convert to the 1.0 weight scale which en.wiki is using but I've done percentages of length and a mean at the end. I'll let you do the maths from there. Harrissimo 20:44, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC).

Nice job!--Rafaelgarcia 22:41, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

Lengths of the 1000 pages

Rolande, could the "most important 1000 pages" that we do have be listed in (descending) order of their length? Such a list might help us determine which of those pages could most easily be boosted above the 10,000 and 30,000 benchmarks. IacobusAmor 19:41, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but maybe it will take some hours/days until I can start ... --Rolandus 20:29, 7 Aprilis 2008 (UTC)