Disputatio Categoriae:Magistratus imperiorum
Quid recensere
Quid hic significat stator ? Secundum Cassell's, hoc nomen Anglice solum 'a magistrate's attendant' significat (et sane 'the stayer of flight; a surname of Jupiter'). IacobusAmor 12:02, 24 Iunii 2011 (UTC)
- Nescio; quid est?--123.192.69.44 15:02, 27 Iunii 2011 (UTC)
- E ratione nunc mihi obscura "a magistrate's attendant" ad locutionem Anglicam "civil servant" adaequavi. Si verbum idoneum exstat ad eos describendos qui territoriis colonialibus praepositi sint, mutare oportet. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:58, 27 Iunii 2011 (UTC)
- Minister plublicus = public servant vel exactius magistratus minister = magistrate's attendant.--123.192.69.44 23:21, 27 Iunii 2011 (UTC)
- E ratione nunc mihi obscura "a magistrate's attendant" ad locutionem Anglicam "civil servant" adaequavi. Si verbum idoneum exstat ad eos describendos qui territoriis colonialibus praepositi sint, mutare oportet. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:58, 27 Iunii 2011 (UTC)
"Stator" was certainly a bad choice: mea culpa. Let's change, by all means. If we want a general term for colonial administrators at all levels, what Latin word(s) could we use? My hesitation with "minister" is that it is currently used differently, to mean a very-high-level member of an independent government. Could we simply use "administrator" in this general sense? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:37, 18 Maii 2012 (UTC)
- Cicero has servi publici 'slaves of the state', but those may not be quite the kind of servants you're seeking; still, the English construction 'civil servant' is fully metaphorical (otherwise, a civil servant might be a valet who tends to act civilly), so maybe servus publicus can also be treated figuratively. Morgan has, for 'civil service', officium civile ; for 'official', officialis administrativus et breviter officialis ; for 'bureaucrat', grapheocrates. You may find other useful terms there. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:21, 18 Maii 2012 (UTC)
- Another possibility, building on one of Morgan's examples, is officium civile tenens, but the mere officialis might do as well. If the person has to be a subordinate to another official (an "attendant"), then maybe something with vice or pro- would come into play. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:26, 18 Maii 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you very much. "Officiales" seems so obvious (cf. Eng. "officials") that one feels silly for not having thought of it. What we need is a general-sounding term, and this would work very well I think. I'll wait and see if any other suggestions are made, and then move. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:14, 18 Maii 2012 (UTC)
- OK, I'll work on it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:17, 30 Maii 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you very much. "Officiales" seems so obvious (cf. Eng. "officials") that one feels silly for not having thought of it. What we need is a general-sounding term, and this would work very well I think. I'll wait and see if any other suggestions are made, and then move. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:14, 18 Maii 2012 (UTC)
- Another possibility, building on one of Morgan's examples, is officium civile tenens, but the mere officialis might do as well. If the person has to be a subordinate to another official (an "attendant"), then maybe something with vice or pro- would come into play. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:26, 18 Maii 2012 (UTC)
I never moved. My fault again; maybe I lost interest in colonial administrators. Looking at the question afresh, the required term needs to encompass the people who are sent to administer colonies and non-self-governing territories.
"Officiales" remains a strong possibility; two other terms suggest themselves, "Apparitores" (more classical than officiales, L&S imply) and "Procuratores". "Administratores" seems unconvincing to me. Any further comments? I will go for "officiales", which we long ago agreed on, unless one of the other terms seems preferable. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:03, 26 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
- For "official," Traupman has only magistratus. Cassell's is a bit more nuanced: for "officer, official," it has "in gen[eral]" praefectus and in particular: army official, tribunus militum or centurio; naval official, classis praefectus; "a (high) state official," magistratus; and "a minor official," minister. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:25, 26 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
- In looking for appropriate Latinizations, it might be useful to contemplate the terms needed to specify each level in the hierarchy of the British colonial service: district officer cadet, assistant district officer, district officer, district commissioner, provincial commissioner, high commissioner, governor (of a colony), governor-general (of a dominion). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:40, 26 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
- "Magistratus" would be ideal, except that its abstract sense is the principal one. Looking for a general term, "gubernator" is too grand, as also "praefectus" (but both are perfectly OK for the top of the hierarchy), "commissus" or possible derivatives don't seem to be used in this sense in classical Latin, "officialis" is scarcely more than a servant. Well, maybe it should be "magistratus" after all: it is so used, and Traupman is not a bad guide. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:58, 26 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
- OK, I'm going for "magistratus". Thanks for your advice, Iacobe. If anyone has further comments, please make them now! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:13, 30 Iulii 2017 (UTC)
- In looking for appropriate Latinizations, it might be useful to contemplate the terms needed to specify each level in the hierarchy of the British colonial service: district officer cadet, assistant district officer, district officer, district commissioner, provincial commissioner, high commissioner, governor (of a colony), governor-general (of a dominion). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:40, 26 Iulii 2017 (UTC)