Disputatio:Universitas Monash
Latest comment: abhinc 5 annos by Heater123 in topic "Universitas Monaschensis"
"Universitas Monaschensis" recensere
Quod erat lemma propositum. English sh more or less regularly becomes s in Latin. Why anybody would think it should be amplified to sch (to be pronounced /skh/) is a mystery. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:02, 10 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- The English variant spelling 'Monash' is a WWI-era de-Germanisation of the German surname 'Monasch', which was John Monash's native name from birth. It is arguable which Latin spelling is more appropriate, as it depends on the language from which the name is being imported. I opted for the original surname spelling for the Latinised form, as often occurs with Latin names for people or places. Please let me know your thoughts. Heater123 (disputatio) 14:48, 10 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- I now see that a source has been provided to account for the name Monasiana - I stand corrected. Heater123 (disputatio) 14:54, 10 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- That's fine. We do our best.
- I don't feel sure about "Monasiana" yet: none of the sources seems to have any connection with the university, and they all seem to go back to one original, but I can't see what or where it was ... Perhaps I'm being too suspicious. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:18, 10 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- I know what the source was now. As I already suspected, it was the English Wikipedia. It gave this Latin name for several years until 22 April 2018, when an editor over there hid it. He didn't delete it. He must presumably have had a reason for hiding it, but didn't explain. I will ask him what the reason was. Potentially it could still be correct, but we can't rely on mirrors of the obsolete English Wikipedia article. Andrew Dalby (disputatio)
- Awaiting that reply, I find that the Latin name was added anonymously to the English Wikipedia on 29 November 2015, with the following edit summary: "Included Latin name. Latin does not contain the digraph 'sh' /ʃ/, hence it would be Monasiana and not Monashiana". Notice the "would be"! Strongly suggests that the anonym (not a bad linguist, but careless of Wikipedia verifiability guidelines) made the name up. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:56, 10 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for the detective work, Andrew. As far as I am aware, it maintains no official Latin name, but I shall ask a friend about it who may know. Heater123 (disputatio) 03:09, 11 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, Heater, that would be helpful. Older universities usually have Latin seals and sometimes Latin certificates, but around the 1960s Latin fell out of fashion for this use and new universities often don't. [I'm an ancient historian -- to me, Monash will be "new" for a couple of centuries yet.] If the university is simply named after a place, we can use the Latin place name adjective (if one exists), because in that case we're not claiming to provide a proper name: it's just the university of or at Southampton (for example), and anyone might call it that in any language. If it's named after a person, the logic is different, and it's better to be conservative. Hence I had created the category "Universitas Monash" some while back for categorising alumni. We're happy to change such category names later if an official Latin name turns up. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:35, 11 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- For the moment I've moved the page back. A manual move of the alumnus category had been begun but not completed, and the thing was getting confusing. We can move it all easily, with the help of a bot, if a move becomes necessary. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:41, 12 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- That is a prudent decision. I shall report back if I am able to discover anything official. Heater123 (disputatio) 07:57, 13 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- For the moment I've moved the page back. A manual move of the alumnus category had been begun but not completed, and the thing was getting confusing. We can move it all easily, with the help of a bot, if a move becomes necessary. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:41, 12 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, Heater, that would be helpful. Older universities usually have Latin seals and sometimes Latin certificates, but around the 1960s Latin fell out of fashion for this use and new universities often don't. [I'm an ancient historian -- to me, Monash will be "new" for a couple of centuries yet.] If the university is simply named after a place, we can use the Latin place name adjective (if one exists), because in that case we're not claiming to provide a proper name: it's just the university of or at Southampton (for example), and anyone might call it that in any language. If it's named after a person, the logic is different, and it's better to be conservative. Hence I had created the category "Universitas Monash" some while back for categorising alumni. We're happy to change such category names later if an official Latin name turns up. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:35, 11 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for the detective work, Andrew. As far as I am aware, it maintains no official Latin name, but I shall ask a friend about it who may know. Heater123 (disputatio) 03:09, 11 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- Awaiting that reply, I find that the Latin name was added anonymously to the English Wikipedia on 29 November 2015, with the following edit summary: "Included Latin name. Latin does not contain the digraph 'sh' /ʃ/, hence it would be Monasiana and not Monashiana". Notice the "would be"! Strongly suggests that the anonym (not a bad linguist, but careless of Wikipedia verifiability guidelines) made the name up. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:56, 10 Septembris 2018 (UTC)
- I know what the source was now. As I already suspected, it was the English Wikipedia. It gave this Latin name for several years until 22 April 2018, when an editor over there hid it. He didn't delete it. He must presumably have had a reason for hiding it, but didn't explain. I will ask him what the reason was. Potentially it could still be correct, but we can't rely on mirrors of the obsolete English Wikipedia article. Andrew Dalby (disputatio)
- I now see that a source has been provided to account for the name Monasiana - I stand corrected. Heater123 (disputatio) 14:54, 10 Septembris 2018 (UTC)