Disputatio:Scutelleridae

I'm a bit confused whether or not it should be "de ordine" or "ex ordine" I originally put the latter, but more and more I'm leaning towards the former, and am going to change it unless anyone has any objections. Alexanderr 05:02, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

No, you want ex. Other notes:

1. hemiptera: normally in Latin this would be in the ablative, because it is "in apposition" with ordine. HOwever, as I have said elsewhere, it is good to avoid declining biological names, so we need to add something that will give us an excuse to keep it in the nominative. Some suggestions: ex ordine qui est hemiptera or qui dicitur hemiptera, or ex ordine "hempitera" nomine.
2. cuius membrarum testa non disparantur: what does this mean? "the shells of whose limbs are not divided"? If so, testa is probably not the best word. Also, membrum is neuter, so the genitive plural shoudl be membrorum with an o.
3. etiam color eius sunt multus et vividus: color, multus, and vividus are singular, but sunt is plural. You either need to pluralize all those words, or say this another way. Unless you have a better suggestion.
4. cuius...eius: problematic because they imply a singular antecedant. Scutelleridae is plural, insectorum is plural, hemiptera is plural. Familia and ordine are singular, but families and orders don't have limbs or colors. Sorry if this sounds nitpicky, but this is exactly the kind of detail you have to watch out for in Latin!

Anyway, sorry for all ther corrections, but overall you did a good job. I'm glad you're getting your Latin down! --Iustinus 05:27, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Well thanks for the compliment. I've been trying my best. Aaaaaaanyway, by "cuius membrorum testas non disparantur" I meant "whose members' shells are not divided". And I used "ex ordine" before hemiptera hoping that the ablative would end in a simple "a" and we wouldn't have to really mutate it. It'd still be recognizable to those entirely foreign to latin. Alexanderr 05:36, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

For membra, see my comment at disputatio:hemiptera. As for the hemiptera themselves, well like most biological orders, the name is plural (nom. Hemiptera, gen. Hemipterorum.) So the ablative and nominative will not look the same afterall. --Iustinus 05:46, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

BTW, by testa do you mean what the English version calls a "shield"? Because that can quite aptly be translated literally as scutum or scutellum (that word sound familiar?) I mean, if their entire exoskeleton is not divided, well they couldn't move for one thing. Also they wouldn't be insecta (which literally means "notched"). --Iustinus 05:51, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

It probably is one of the first ones. I was originally working with en:Scutelleridae if you are interested, but had to change the article so there wouldn't be meaningless english names in the latin. Which one of the first two would be the best? Alexanderr 05:55, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Good thinking, but notice that the Latin name means something very close to the English one, since scutellum means "little shield." So you probably want to say something like "they are called by this name because their scutellum is continuum and not divided." BTW, I'll probably be dropping off soon, so I can't promise more corrections. Then again I migh stick around just a little while longer. --Iustinus 06:04, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Respice grammaticam! Scutelleridae multae sunt. Quam ob rem "Scutelleridae sunt..." scribendum esse censeo. Nescio, an melius sit "Verbo 'Scutelleridae' appellamus familiam insectorum" scribere. Recte "ex ordo esse" uteris, sed quid forma grammatica 'hemiptera' velit? Cur non "ex hemipterorum ordine" dicis? Video consocium nostrum Alexanderr hac de re iam luculente disputavisse.

Vale, Georgus.

Iustinus Georgio SPD

Ne Alexandrro nostro difficilius sit lectu, tibi Anglice respondam.

You have a point. Suctelleridae is plural, so we really should say Scutelleridae sunt familia..., or some other circumlocution about how they comprise a family.

As for hemiptera (and of course you mean ex ordine, not ex ordo: I normally wouldn't mention it, but I don't want Alexanderr to get tripped up!), you are right, it is probably better to say ex Hemipterorum ordine. I was just fretting over the issue that I brought up here, namely that scientific taxa should probably be kept in the nominative to the extent possible. But the more I think about that, the more that seems to apply only to binomial (Genus-species) names. Afterall, for higher naems I regularly advocate full Latinization (e.g. Eucaryota, not Eukaryota). So let's go with ex ordine Hemipterorum or Hemipterorum ordine. --Iustinus 18:52, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

BTW, are you Georgius as in Usor:Georgius? --Iustinus 18:58, 7 Septembris 2006 (UTC)