Disputatio:Pharasmanes II Fortis

Q

Usor:Andrew Dalby No problem. But we need to note as this monarch is known as "Valiant". So how will be that in Latin if it's not Fortissimus as you've said? Jaqeli (disputatio) 09:28, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

What's the source? We can quote the source and give a translation. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:39, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:Andrew Dalby All the Georgian Chronicles (Georgian royal annals, Part: XVIII) know this monarch as ფარსმან ქველი meaning "Pharasmanes the Valiant" or "Pharasmanes the Brave". Jaqeli (disputatio) 11:24, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

I have added the translation. As I said on your user page, we would not use this word in the pagename as it suggests POV and there is no Latin source. So I have moved back again. Please do not move the page any more: if you are dissatisfied, explain here. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:48, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:Andrew Dalby This monarch's name is defined by the chronicles as such and where do you see a POV here? This monarch is exclusively known by that name as no other Iberian monarch had such title. Jaqeli (disputatio) 11:53, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Et vide exemplar nominis Caroli Magni. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:54, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:IacobusAmor Can you please translate what did you say? Jaqeli (disputatio) 11:57, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

And see the pattern of the name Charlemagne. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:01, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:IacobusAmor And what that supposed to mean? Jaqeli (disputatio) 12:02, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

What it says. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:03, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:IacobusAmor I am afraid I cannot understand what you mean. Jaqeli (disputatio) 12:05, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

In P. Fortis & C. Magnus, the pattern = noun + adjective. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:09, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:IacobusAmor And what do you want to say? Carolus has its adjective "the Great" and Pharasmanes does not and that's what my concern is that Andrew reverted it back to Pharasmanes II. Jaqeli (disputatio) 12:12, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

I noticed, Jaqeli, that you moved the English page from en:Pharasmanes the Valiant to en:Pharasmanes II of Iberia. That seems inconsistent. Would you care to explain why you did that at en:wiki, but you are urging the opposite move here?

As to the source, I see the phrase ფარსმან მეფე ქუელი "Pharasmenes the valiant king", and probably it's a fair description of him, but I do not yet see that the adjective is being used as part of his name. However, I also see that Toumanoff calls him "Pharasmanes II, the Good" (p.16)! That's very interesting, but it doesn't help us enough: if we are to give him a title, which title should it be? Where did Toumanoff find that English title "the good"? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:26, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:Andrew Dalby For categorization purposes. In en.wiki there are many Pharasmanes and that's why. As for the name it is his defined name. Entire part XVIII of the Georgian chronicles is about this monarch and he is called exclusively by that name. ...მტერ ექმნეს ფარსმან ქუელსა... ...ხოლო ფარსმან ქუელი იყო კაცი კეთილი... ...ხოლო იყო მაშინ სპასპეტი ფარსმან ქუელისა, ეგრეთ-ვე... etc. Jaqeli (disputatio) 12:48, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

OK, I'm convinced. I've moved the page as you suggest. Probably Toumanoff's "the Good" is just another translation of the same word. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:01, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Usor:Andrew Dalby Thank you. Jaqeli (disputatio) 13:05, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)

Historia Augusta

I removed the author's name "Aelius Spartianus" because classical scholars seem agreed that the six authors to whom the HA is attributed are fictional creations. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:46, 7 Maii 2015 (UTC)