Disputatio:Pagus Ater

Terra Nigra

Isn't Niger more of a shining black? Wouldn't Terra Atra be a more fitting translation, as 'black' is the black of soot and grime? cf Wiktionary. JimKillock (disputatio) 17:34, 22 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

I agree that "atra" is more suitable. I think "nigra" wants to be taken literally, while "atra" carries more of the undertones associated with the colour black.

I think, too, that Tergum Violinae, long ago, should not have moved this page to the English name. The name consists entirely of translatable words, and our guidelines permit translating it. What do others think? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:10, 22 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

I would have thought that pagus is a closer equivalent to country. If I read terra nigra I think of the archaeological "dark/black earths" that form usually in post-Roman contexts.--Xaverius 19:11, 22 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

(Cf. Pagus Vasconicus for Pais Vasco/Pays Basque)--Xaverius 19:12, 22 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

I haven't seen anthracite in more than sixty years, but my memory is that pieces of it can be quite shiny. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 20:41, 22 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

Ha, yes anthractite *can* be shiny … but if I may say so coal dust is coal dust … Pagus does look a bit closer. Pagus Ater then? JimKillock (disputatio) 07:15, 23 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

Yes, you re-wrote and I've moved. Let's see what we can find.

Notice that "Terra atra" in "Terra+Atra"&source=bl&ots=PAdV_GLC21&q="Terra%20Atra"&f=false#v=snippet&q="Terra%20Atra"&f=false this source is used of painters' pigments. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:35, 24 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

But then we have Eduardus, vulgo Niger princeps dictus. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 10:59, 24 Augusti 2019 (UTC)

The dictionaries seem to say that the negative connotations apply to both ater and niger – the Black Prince Edward is called this because of his deadly methods; perhaps either could apply? The Black Country, though, is generally assumed (and has stuck) because of its reference to grime; it might orginally have referred to the presence of a massive coal seam. It is not necessarily negative - it evokes industriousness and withstanding hardship as well as dirt - which may help explain why it is a matter of local pride to refer to the 'Black Country'. JimKillock (disputatio) 12:40, 24 Augusti 2019 (UTC)