Disputatio:Nicolaus Clegg
Latest comment: abhinc 14 annos by Helveticus montanus in topic munere populi quadragesimi sexti Districti Californiae fungetur.
Corrigi
recensereI made some changes, but I'm not sure how best to say "Member of Parliament for X constituency". Maybe someone else will look in and help. I can say, however, that if any dictionary claims there is a Latin word "membrus", it had better be burned! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:18, 4 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- There are Latin words for some English place names, but not all. If we use an English place-name (or indeed surname) we treat it as indeclinable. So that's simple, anyway. No need to find the genitive or dative of "Hallam". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:37, 4 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- For 'member of Parliament', zillions of attestations from before the mid-nineteenth century must be lurking in the literature. Ainsworth's defines 'a parliament-man' as Senator, but then it defines 'a parliament' as Senatus. So if we're using classicizing Latin of the eighteenth century, 'member of Parliament' may be just plain Senator. This may refer only to the House of Commons, because (presumably) peers would be cited by their titles, and their serving in the House of Lords would be assumed. IacobusAmor 21:22, 4 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- Many aspects of Ainsworth's dictionary attest to the fact that he was not cultivating 18th century latin as much as classical latin as part of a countermovement to "purify" the latin of his day. His use of senatus in place of parlimentum is an example.
- There is the perfectly fine latin word parliamentum (meaning parley or discussion) which dates to the 14th century, e.g. in the famous document "Modus Tenendi Parliamentum" [1]= Manner of having a discussion" which states the rules for parliamentary discussion and procedure for the house of commons. It is from this term that Parliament was subsequently NAMED. Whether one considers it to be a senate or not is another question.
- The document does not state what a member of Parliament is named; however, from the subsequent english and romance language names is easy to suspect that it would be Membrum (neuter) (despite the unfortunate earlier prior meanings of the term). Oh and here is an attestation from 1800s that proves my guess is correct:[2]--Rafaelgarcia 22:58, 4 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- That's legal Latin though, which had never been purged of mediaevalisms and is hardly a model of good usage. I know Gaudeamus igitur uses 'membrum', apparently as neuter. Still it seems to go against the rules of Latin to use a neuter for persons - why not the logical membrus/membra?
- From a Google search though, there do seem to be some uses of 'membrum parlamenti' (neuter), and not of 'membrus', including this old one. So I guess it should be 'membrum parlamenti' after all. Pantocrator 04:17, 5 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- There is a difference between a NAME of thing and a conceptualization referring to a class of things of a given kind, in particular the difference is often recorded by capitalization of the first letter of the word or phrase. There is a major difference between Parliament and what the ancients would have descibed it as. That doesn't make either parliamentum or Parliamentum any less of a word.THe basic gist of VIcipaedia is that we are not creating a language but using a language to describe things.--Rafaelgarcia 17:47, 5 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- Huh? I found some citations for membrum and you respond with this?
- As far as the spelling of 'parliament', we should all be able to agree that Parlamentum is the best Latin form. Pantocrator 19:50, 5 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- There is a difference between a NAME of thing and a conceptualization referring to a class of things of a given kind, in particular the difference is often recorded by capitalization of the first letter of the word or phrase. There is a major difference between Parliament and what the ancients would have descibed it as. That doesn't make either parliamentum or Parliamentum any less of a word.THe basic gist of VIcipaedia is that we are not creating a language but using a language to describe things.--Rafaelgarcia 17:47, 5 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
- For 'member of Parliament', zillions of attestations from before the mid-nineteenth century must be lurking in the literature. Ainsworth's defines 'a parliament-man' as Senator, but then it defines 'a parliament' as Senatus. So if we're using classicizing Latin of the eighteenth century, 'member of Parliament' may be just plain Senator. This may refer only to the House of Commons, because (presumably) peers would be cited by their titles, and their serving in the House of Lords would be assumed. IacobusAmor 21:22, 4 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
munere populi quadragesimi sexti Districti Californiae fungetur.
recenserecreavit sententiam munere populi quadragesimi sexti Districti Californiae fungetur, secundum Castiglioni, Aloisius; Mariotti, Scaevola. Vocabolario della lingua latina, latino-italiano, italiano-latino. Quarta editio a Petro Georgio Parroni curata (Taurini, 2007).: vice (o munere) alicuius fungor (eris, functus sum, intr. dep.) essere delegato di qualcuno, to act as somebody's delegate --Helveticus montanus 09:52, 6 Februarii 2010 (UTC).