Disputatio:Nartator

Moved from Disputatio Categoriae:Nartatores to here. --Roland (disp.) 21:46, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

Significan natatores?!--Ioshus ^(disp) 05:02, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

Miror:

nart.ator V 1 1 FUT PASSIVE IMP 2 S

nart.ator V 1 1 FUT PASSIVE IMP 3 S

narto, nartare, nartavi, nartatus V [GXXEK] NeoLatin uncommon

ski;

nartator N 3 1 NOM S M

nartator N 3 1 VOC S M

nartator, nartatoris N M [GXXEK] NeoLatin uncommon

skier;

Fortasse teneamus...--Ioshus ^(disp) 06:22, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

In this case ;-) I checked it, before I created the category. The term is in {{PONS-Egger}}:

• Skiläufer, m nartator, oris, m; vgl. EGGER, Serm. Lat. Hod., 120

Then there are in {{PONS-Egger}}:

• Ski
• Ski laufen
• Skiausrüstung
• Skilauf
• Skilift
• Skipiste

--Roland (disp.) 08:34, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

To my tropical eyes, nartator looks like a typo for natator 'swimmer'. The verb from which nartator comes has to be narto, nartare, nartavi, nartatus. Is that in your dictionary too? and what is its etymology? IacobusAmor 12:00, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

It is a German - Latin dictionary, the translation of Lexicon Recentis Latinitatis. There is not narto, nartare (which would mean Ski laufen or skifahren in German). There is just narta, -ae (vgl. Lat, 43, 1995, 50), which is listed as the word for Ski. The given (!) translation for Ski laufen (or skifahren) is nartis prolabor.

Lexicon Recentis Latinitatis seems to be partly available via Internet and - dadaaaaah! - we now have Lexicon Vaticanum Rerum Novarum. There you'll find:

• sci (corsa di) ... nartátio (-ōnis)
• sciatore ... nartator (-ōris)

--Roland (disp.) 12:46, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

How far back does narta, -ae go? In any case, -tio isn't the only nounmaking suffix, and to distinguish the new word from natatio, we could assume the verb narto ~ nartor 'I ski' and from that produce nartes, -ei f. 'skiing' (cf. caedes 'slaughtering'), or nartamen, -inis n. 'skiing' (cf. certamen 'contest'), or nartura, -ae f. 'skiing' (cf. scriptura 'writing'). All these might be preferable to nartatio, which (I reiterate) looks like a typo.

If we were coining words de novo and thinking like native speakers, we'd have two typical options: (1) invent a term from our own lexicon, and (2) adapt into our syntax a lexeme from other languages. In the first case, a systematic approach would accommodate at least five nonclassical concepts (I hope these are plausibly formed):

aqua lapsus ~ aquilapsus (water-gliding) 'waterskiing'

glacie lapsus ~ glacilapsus (ice-gliding) 'skating'

nive lapsus ~ nivilapsus (snow-gliding) 'skiing'

rotis lapsus ~ rotilapsus (wheel-gliding) 'rollerskating'

undis lapsus ~ undilapsus (wave-gliding) 'surfing'

For the second option, we could start with the verbs. Since labor 'I glide myself' and moveor 'I move myself' are deponent, we could have a little fun by making the borrowed terms deponent:

aquiscior 'I waterski'; hence aquisciarius 'waterskier'

sceitor 'I skate'; hence sceitarius' 'skater'

scior 'I ski'; hence sciarius 'skiier'

rolasceitor 'I rollerskate'; hence rolasceitarius 'rollerskater'

surfor 'I surf'; hence: surfarius 'surfer'

For the action, the first & fourth declensions offer options equivalent to -tio:

surfura, -ae ~ surfus, -us 'surfing'

sceitura, -ae ~ sceitus, -us 'skating'

sciura, -ae ~ scius, -us 'skiing'

rolasceitura, -ae ~ rolasceitus, -us 'rollerskating'

If we prefer romance versions of skating, we could have patinor 'I skate', patinarius 'skater', patinura ~ patinus 'skating'. IacobusAmor 15:46, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

Just two things: This word was not coined by me and I am quite sure that it is not a typo. It is from Carolus Egger's book. There you can find (only): narta, nartis prolabor (to ski), apparatus nartatorius, nartatio, nartator, anabathrum nartatorium, iter narticum. Some pages before you can find: nato (to swim), fluentis innato, innato, natabile. Not a typo, not coined by me. - Now we can proceed ... ;-) --Roland (disp.) 16:22, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't saying I thought it was a typo: merely that it had the appearance of one. The syntax of nartis prolabor 'I glide forward on nartae' echoes that of the solution I suggested, but now, if we accept nartis prolabor and want parallel coinages, we need Latin words for ice-skates, roller-skates, and surfboards—terms we wouldn't need if we stuck with ice, wheels, and water, respectively. IacobusAmor 17:23, 1 Novembris 2006 (UTC)