Disputatio:Lumia

Imago mutanda?

The species in the picture is obviously "citrus aurantifolia", "citrus lumia" is pear-shaped and yellow (in most pictures I found). But I dont know which one is copyright-free, so I didnt insert it yet. Teutonius 21:55, 26 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

This picture I found in the German and Simple English articles on Citrus latifolia. Swedish and English have other pictures. Please feel free to insert another picture, for I would not be able to tell the difference between C. aurantifolia and C. latifolia. --Fabullus 04:54, 27 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

Mix-up of different species?

Apparently "citrus latifolia" is a (green) limette (of Persia, Tahati) quite similar to "citrus aurantifolia" -- and "citrus lumia" is the pear-shaped yellow fruit (pomum Adami)... so actually Im not sure wich one you actually mean? Teutonius 05:37, 27 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

I agree this page may be mixed up. Lumia I would think is citrus lumia. Can you give a reference to where you got your information? Link? --Rafaelgarcia 09:14, 27 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

The Medieval Latin word lumia corresponds to English lime and German limette. From the German page on Citrus latifolia I gathered that these words must first have been applied only to Citrus latifolia (Persian lime), and that only later the Englisch and German words (as well as those in other languages) came to have a wider application, so as to include Citrus aurantiifolia (Key lime) and others. Perhaps the word lumia should be allowed to refer to such species as well. Only in more recent times was the name Citrus lumia invented for a species (pear lemon?) that had not been called lumia/lime/limette before. If you like, I will rewrite the present page to include every species that in English is called lime, making a special reference to Citrus lumia. In that case I will move the specific information about Citrus latifolia to a separate page. I will certainly not agree to simply equating lumia with Citrus lumia. --Fabullus 12:46, 27 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

Ex fontibus:
"Et si fuerit prope horam scutellandi, pone ibi succum limonum uel limiarum uel citrangulorum." [1]
"Videas ibi et lumias acetositate sua saporandis cibis ydoneas" [2]

According to these two sources both lumia & limia are not necessarily the same plant, but I would say both are lime species (citrus latifolia / citrus aurantifolia) and not the (relative unknown) sweet lemon (citrus x lumia), or its pear shaped variety. Teutonius 07:31, 28 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

I think the general problem is: do we strictly take the (modern) latin-greek taxons as the title of the texts, or do we also allow older (vulgar & classical) names, that might conflict with the modern taxonomy? Teutonius 07:44, 28 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

Why not have articles on all of them? For starters, here are English possibilities (edited from Wikipedia):

Lime is any of several fruits of genus Citrus, both species and hybrids, which are typically round, green to yellow in color, 3-6 cm in diameter, generally with sour pulp, and frequently associated with the lemon. Limes are often used to accent the flavors of foods and beverages.

Citrus (Graece: kedros 'cedrus, iuniperus'; fortasse ex verbo Etrusco) is both a common term and a genus of flowering plants in the family Rutaceae, originating in tropical and subtropical southeast Asia. The ancient Romans applied the word to several trees with fragrant foliage or wood. The taxonomy and systematics of the genus are complex, and the precise number of natural species is unclear, as many of the named species are clonally propagated hybrids, and genetic evidence suggests that even some wild, true-breeding species are hybrids. Cultivated citrus may be derived from as few as four ancestral species. Natural and cultivated-origin hybrids include commercially important fruit, such as oranges, grapefruit, lemons, limes, and tangerines.

Citrus aurantifolia. . . .

Citrus latifolia. . . .

Citrus lumia. . . .

And so on. ¶ One of the most useful phrases in defining nouns is any of several. How do we best say that in Latin? IacobusAmor 11:46, 28 Augusti 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I have now rewritten the page to meet your just criticisms. I leave it to you guys to write the more specialised articles on separate species and hybrids.

It is a much nicer page now...congrats!--Rafaelgarcia 12:35, 28 Augusti 2008 (UTC)