Disputatio:Landishuta

I have not only looked for the names of Landshut, but also how often and where they are cited. Landishuta and Landishutum appeared most often Landishuetta as good as nowhere.__Bachmai 19:31, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

I did a hard job today and want you to distroy the page you made now.

I am destroying nothing; all content here is fully merged at Landeshuetta. Harrissimo 18:39, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

Why is the Latinitas bad? Sorry. I have corrected "Veta urbs" to "Urbs vetus" and many other things. The only problem is "Celeheimus", which I did not found. I only found substantiva for "Kehlheim", but no adjectivum. Or is there another mistake?--Bachmai 19:31, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever seen my "Bavaria Latina"? How can you open a new Article with a term that does not or as good as nowhere occur in the Latin literature?--Bachmai 19:31, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Do all of the alternative names come from there? If so, please cite them at Landeshuetta and you may move the page to a different title if you can prove which one is used most often (by number of citations). Harrissimo 18:39, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

These are the terms in J. G. Th. Graesse, Orbis Latinus (Dresdae: Schönfeld, 1861; 1909. Brunsvici, 1972, 3 voll.) 1 2 3:

Landeshuetta, Landshutum, Lants-, Lantzhuta, Landshut, St., Bayern (Niederb.).

Landishuta, -um, Landeshut, St., Preußen (Schlesien).

Following this Landishuta is a place in Silesia. --Alex1011 18:35, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

This is highly interesting. May be that I was indeed wrong. Tomorrow I will look again in Bavaria Latina. I cannot understand this, because "Bavaria Latina" is (I think so) restricted to Bavarian locations. And Preußen or Schlesien are not in Bavaria and never belonged to it. Alex, I think you are German. If yes, let's talk in German.--Bachmai 19:31, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

In Landeshuetta stehen jetzt sämtliche Namen mit Beleg außer Landishuta, das weder genannt noch belegt ist. --Alex1011 19:11, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Addidi. Harrissimo 19:24, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC). GRATIAS, Harissimo! Videamus an "Landishuta" et nomina alia deleri debeantur.

Die Zitierung hatte ich bereits gemerkt. Landishuta war mit Landishutum die Bez., die in Bavaria Latina am häufigsten vorkam. Man sagt ja auch Ratisbona,nicht etwa Ratesbona. Von daher scheint mir das nachvollziehbar. Die "-um"-Endungen sind ohnehin sehr häufig. Aber wenn "Landishuta" tatsächlich ein Landshut in Schlesien sein sollte, muss ich natürlich schauen, ob so eine Verwechslung nicht bei anderen Namen auch vorkommt. In diesem Falle müssten da evtl. mehrere Namen gestrichen werden.__Bachmai 19:31, 11 Februarii 2008 (UTC)

Ad Harrissiminem (correclty declined?, excuse for the wrong writing before, was not by intention): All name came from "Bavaria Latina" except that with the ending "huata". I took this from the German pagina. In Bavaria Latina also the matricles are quoted, i.e. in which German towns the expressions were used. Bavaria Latinas is a much more accurate research than Graesse, however, if there were indeed an exchanges betwenn the two "Landshut", this would not be good, but can happen to best researchers.

Research in Bavaria Latina and Zedler

Landeshuta (Landeshuetta) is mentioned in the matricles of the students at the University Ingolstadt-Landshut-München (1550, 658,29). Secondary Literature: Bruzen, Oesterley, Graesse.

Landishuta (NB=Niederbayern=Bavaria inferior) is mentioned in the Matricles of the Universities in Erfurt, Ingolstadt-Landshut-München u.ö., Album Academiae Vitebergensis, Uni Straßburg und Uni Würzburg. Secondary Lit.: Hund, Bruzen, Förstemann (Graesse is not cited because he referred to the Landshut in Silesia)

Landishutum: Only Sec. Lit., but much: Cellarius Lex, Bruzen, Stumpf, Deschamps, Saalfeld, Chevin (Graesse is not cited because Graesse referred to the Landshut in Silesia). You see that Bucaz (the first author of Bavaria Latina) works accurately.

Landshuta: in Matricles of the University Ingolstadt-Landshut-München. Secondary: Andr. Rat, Bruzen, Bremer, Saalfeld

Landshutum: in Ferrari, Bremer, Graesse, Deschamps Suppl., Saalfeld.

Lanshuta: in Bruzen

Lantshuta (Landtshutta, Lantzhuta) in Urkunde Reitenhaslach (if correctly copied by myself), Ptol 1486, Reger, Graesse, Oesterley.

Bukaz writes behind the quoted matricles always three numbers (as shown at the beginning of this section). I am not sure whether the first number is the year number. But if so, it would be meaningful. Let's have a look at the matricles of the University Ingolstadt-Landshut-München:

In 1480 the name is Landshuta

In 1550 the name is Landeshuta (Landeshuetta).

In 1597 the name is Landishuta.

The names of 1480 and 1550 only occur in the matricles of the University Ingolstadt-Landshut-München, whereas the name Landishuta additionally occurs in the Univeristies of Erfurt, Album Academiae Vitebergensis, Uni Straßburg and Uni Würzburg, together in five Universities. Of course, students became more, especially since the erudation campagne of the Lutherian Church who put the knowledge of the bible in the center.

The names appearing in the matricles are those that really were in use among students and professors as well. The cited secondary literature (Lexika, about name changes in history and so on) much more represent personal preference of the writers of the lexica, and I am rather sure that much has only be copied from other Lexica.

Having a look at the matricles it es clear: the young version Landishuta leads by 5:1:1 against Landeshuta (Landeshuetta) and Landshuta.

Having a look at the other literature we see that Landishutum leads by 6 quotation without Graesse where it is cited as Landshut in Silesia). I mentioned the endig -um in parentheses of the Bavaria article. I will remove this because it is not cited in matricles. Then follows Landshutum with 5 citations, Landshuta with 4 citaions, Landishuta with 3 citations and also Landeshuta (vel Landeshuetta; with two different termini high citation numbers can easier be obtained) with three citations.

Altogether Landishuta occurs 5 times in matricles (so this name was indeed used) and also 3 times in secondary literature, together 8 times, so Landishuta is the clear favorite, wherefore I chose this name. The second most is "Landishutum" (not mentioned in Graesse as a Bavarian town) with 6 citations but no matricles. The other names with matricles are 5 times (Landshuta) and 4 times (Landeshuta vel Landeshuetta) mentioned. Lantshuta (vel Lantshutta vel Lantzhuta) is 5 times mentiond, but these are even three different names.

I got the impression that Bukaz did a very good job. He only focussed to Bavaria, so it is clear that he can be more accurate in this area than one who treats the whole orbis terrarum.

Zedler

Let's still have a look at

• Johann Heinrich Zedler (1732-1750, reprint in 1982): Großes vollständiges Universallexikon. 64 tomi. Akademische Druck- und Verlagsanstalt Graz, Austria.

Zedler mentions four different "Landshut":

• Landhut in Niederbayern (Bavaria inferior) with the Latin names: Landshuta, Lanshuta, Landishuta, Landishutum, Landeshuta.
• Landshut im Erbfürstentum Schweidnitz (is this identical with Silesia?). This article ofthen quotes "Lucae. Schles. Denckw.". The Latin name for this Landshut is Landishutta (with double t, not with simple t as in Graesse)
• Landshut im Brandenburgischem Preußen, where he points to Ragnit.
• Landshut as a Swiss castle.

Of course, all Landshut mean the same (hat of the land), so they have equal names, which changed as times changed.

Next problem: Kelheim

We need it for Germanice: "Ludwig der Kelheimer", i.e. Anglice: "Louis the Kelheimish" (Adjective). Ludovicus is clear but not what is the adjective of Kelheim in Latin. For Kelheim Bukaz (Bavaria Latina) gives the following names:

Alkimoennis, Artobirga, Cleusum, Celeusus, Celtae Domus, Celtis Domus, Celtis Terra, Cheleheimium, Kehlheimium, Kelhemium (Kelhemum), Kelhusum (Kellhusum), Keltege.

How to find the correct adjective. i tried to find something about this Ludovicus himself in Latin but was not successful.

Either you write e.g. Ludovicus de Kelhemio and skip the adjective or you useLudovicus Kelhemiensis FridericusRex 15:18, 11 Iulii 2008 (UTC)

My last changes

• I have changed "inferiori" to "inferioris" as it is in "Herbipolis", capite Franconiae inferioris. I think the genitive is better than the dative.

Not necessarily better ([1]) but it makes no difference. Harrissimo 15:42, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

• I ordered the names of Landishuta alphabetically
• I added the Zedler lexicon in the literature.
• I deleted the Latin or not Latin word "Celeheimo" and replaced it by the German agnomen "der Kelheimer".
• I mentioned that this Ludovicus is Duke of Bavaria, the first of this name.

This can be the page now, as you have put forward good evidence. I will put Landeshuetta as an alternative name and a delete template is at Landeshuetta now. Harrissimo 15:42, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

You have shortened: "cui agnomen...impositum est" to "agnomine "der Kelheimer" impositum est". I think this shortening was too little. I think "agnomine "der Kelheimer" should suffice and did so.

Sorry. I mustn't have read the impositum est for some reason. Harrissimo 17:22, 13 Februarii 2008 (UTC).

de puncto in numeris adhibendo

Salve, optime! Nescio, quid in pagina "Landishuta" lacuna ista inter 67 et 620 expediat. Nonne puncto opus est, ut ubicumque talibus in numeris invenimus ? Bavarese (disputatio) 12:18, 9 Februarii 2015 (UTC)

Melius spatium non magnum (67 620), sed tenue (67 620), secundum regulam ISO. Vide disputationem, fortasse in Taberna, abhinc annos quinque (?), sex (?), septem (?). IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:04, 9 Februarii 2015 (UTC)

Gratias tibi ago. Praedictum illud punctum in permultis paginis numeros maiores continentibus identidem video. Sed istud quidem procul absit, ut disputationem, cuius mentionem fecisti, investigem: tibi credo. Valeas. Bavarese (disputatio) 17:46, 9 Februarii 2015 (UTC)