Disputatio:Iohannes Hus
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Nisi fallor, Iohannes suis temporibus Latine appellatus est "Hussius". -Alatius 15:41, 27 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
- Ita. Gratias agimus. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:46, 27 Septembris 2009 (UTC)
Name
recensereHello, sorry for not speaking latin, but I forgot almost everything I learned. Jan Hus's name in latin is Ioannes Hus. Not Ioannes Hussius. Ioannes Hus is how his medieval texts are signed. See Google results, eg. [1], [2], [3] and many more. I think the article should be moved, however since I don't know why exactly you put it on this name, I leave it on you. In case of not moving, please, explain why, so we'll know for future. In case of move, please, be so kind, and move it also on latin Wikiquote, perhaps with link to this talk. Thank you.
— Danny B. 09:46, 24 Octobris 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, I think you're right. I didn't check carefully enough before going along with Alatius's recommendation above. The forms "Ioannes Hussius" and "Ioannis Hussii" exist but get very few google hits, while "Ioannes Hus" and "Ioannis Hus" get many more. We'll wait for comments, but I expect we will move as you suggest.
- I don't do Wikiquotes. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:01, 24 Octobris 2009 (UTC)
- I agree, I should also have checked Google better. Now I see not only Ioannes Hus is more common than Ioannes Hussius, but also Iohannes Hus is more common than Ioannes Hus (and if we can believe [4], he himself signed this way). Ergo movendum est. Gabriel Svoboda 13:47, 24 Octobris 2009 (UTC)
- If he called himself "Johannes Hus", that's obviously the way to go. I stand corrected. --Alatius 00:10, 9 Novembris 2009 (UTC)
- No problem. What a friendly discussion! A model for wikipedians everywhere :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:04, 9 Novembris 2009 (UTC)
- At the risk then of not sounding friendly, one might point out that if other people of his day treated his name otherwise in Latin, their attestations have indispensable relevance, and the lemma might better read
- Iohannes Hus, vel Iohannes Hussius, natus Johann Hus
- or
- Iohannes Hus, vulgo Iohannes Hussius, natus Johann Hus
- or perhaps
- Iohannes Hussius, recte Iohannes Hus, natus Johann Hus
- At the risk then of not sounding friendly, one might point out that if other people of his day treated his name otherwise in Latin, their attestations have indispensable relevance, and the lemma might better read
- No problem. What a friendly discussion! A model for wikipedians everywhere :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:04, 9 Novembris 2009 (UTC)
- If he called himself "Johannes Hus", that's obviously the way to go. I stand corrected. --Alatius 00:10, 9 Novembris 2009 (UTC)
- I agree, I should also have checked Google better. Now I see not only Ioannes Hus is more common than Ioannes Hussius, but also Iohannes Hus is more common than Ioannes Hus (and if we can believe [4], he himself signed this way). Ergo movendum est. Gabriel Svoboda 13:47, 24 Octobris 2009 (UTC)
- or whatever. IacobusAmor 13:53, 9 Novembris 2009 (UTC)
He called himself in Latin (apparently) Joannes Hus with no "h": see above and our footnote. For some reason the page was moved to Iohannes Hus with an "h". I think maybe Gabriel did this because he was unable to delete the existing redirect at "Ioannes Hus". I have now moved again to "Ioannes Hus", which I think is the sense of the discussion above. "Iohannes Hussius" remains as an alternative lemma, as Iacobus suggested. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:56, 30 Iunii 2015 (UTC)
- I moved back again. As I look at further sources, it's evident that the "h" is more often inserted than omitted. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:15, 30 Iunii 2015 (UTC)
De cognomine
recensereLaurentianus heri post verbum "Hussius" addidit "(Bohemice = anser)". Additio haud pellucida fuit, sed re vera "husa" Bohemice = anser et "husinec" (nomen oppidi ubi Iohannes Hus natus est) Bohemice = anserarium. Quaestiones igitur:
- Si ille primus cognomen "Hus" sibi usurpavit, a iuventute "de Husinec" vel sim. appellatus (ita Encyclopaedia Britannica 1911 Vide notam subiunctam), an propter similitudinem verborum communium selegit?
- Si autem pater et familia cognomen "Hus(s)" habuerunt (ita fons recentissimus hic, sed fidelitate haud per me certa), an hoc cognomen origine Theodiscum aut Bohemicum fuit, et qua significatione?
Ob quas quaestiones additionem Laurentiani delevi. Melius erit (nisi fallor) explicationem longiorem scribere et fontes citare. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:23, 1 Iulii 2015 (UTC)
- Salve Andrea, et mihi persuasum est cognomen eius a loco natali trahi potuisse, nihilominus et ipse ad nomen suum allusisse dicitur et anser in imaginibus quibusdam Hussium designat. E.g. Lutherus aliquando pictus est adiuncto ansere, ut Hussius tanquam praedecessor eius declareretur.
- Certe plurimum valebit plura de hac re colligere, et quidem ex optimis fontibus, priusquam determinabimus. Quod ad tempus idoneum dilatum velim. Vale feliciter! --Laurentianus (disputatio) 11:23, 1 Iulii 2015 (UTC)