Disputatio:Derisio Volcerensis

The ancient Latin designation for Bakar seems to have been Volcera (-ae, f.) (more rarely Velcera); see here and here. So the right title would be Derisio Volcerensis or Derisio apud -- or ante -- Volceram. Thoughts? Objections? Alexander Gelsumis (disputatio) 09:45, 8 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry I didn't comment on this before, but it is an extremely difficult question. Undocumented statements on ancient history from this region are always to be taken with a pinch of salt. In this case, one website gives "Vel-kier" as an Illyrian name, though how they know that I can't begin to imagine. Coming to Latin, the only source I can find for the name Velcera/Volcera (in the Greek form Οὐόλκερα) is in Ptolemy's Geography. It is not in the Tabula Peutingeriana, nor in the Itinerarium Antonini, and it is ignored by the Tabulae Imperii Romani folium L.33, which marks Bakar as a Roman settlement but does not give it this name or any other. So who identifies Volcera with Bakar, I don't know: I think we should not assume the identification is correct without a reliable source.

I don't know any modern Latin name for this place, but that's not surprising, because I don't have access to any local history sources! I would suggest asking Usor:Nuada, who is very good at finding modern Latin names in this region. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:10, 26 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

The only sources I could find until now come from the Croatian Wikipedia and a tourist website about Bakar. I have just asked Nuada, though. Alexander Gelsumis (disputatio) 20:13, 28 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

Dear friends, I greet you cordially and thank you for having me involved in this great debate. In this situation, that is when you can not locate a specific name in Latin of a town, the best choice will be to assist the probable ancient Latin name, a Latinization of the modern term. So in this case would add to Bacara (or Bacaria) (from Croatian Bakar), also Volcera (probably Latin). I believe that I rather be avoided Buccaris, as this is an inaccurate Italianization of turkish "Bakir", it is certainly better tu use the term Bacara (also Bacaria), that is the Latinization of the Croat Bakar. So I'd put in both options: "Derisio_Bacarae "and" derision Volcerensis. "I greet you cordially.--Nuada (disputatio) 11:02, 30 Iunii 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Nuada. So on one side we have a probable Latin designation for that area, even though it is not that firm; on the other there is the possibility of Latinizing the modern name. Only one thing is quite assured: Buccaris seems to be wrong. I wonder which option we should lean towards, in order to provide the best quality for this page...

I have just found this document about Pannonia and Dalmatia, which includes the Greek and Latin names of cities and countries. Bakar is referred to as Raparia and the reference is A. Mayer's Die Sprache der alten Illyrier (Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften, Schriften der Balkankommission 15, vol. 1, p. 284, Vienna, 1957). --Alexander Gelsumis (disputatio) 14:25, 1 Iulii 2012 (UTC)

... And this one. --Alexander Gelsumis (disputatio) 08:22, 24 Iulii 2012 (UTC)