Quantum redactiones paginae "Disputatio:Tribunal internationale Hagense" differant
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::Cicero etc., for all their virtues, were obviously very bigotted people and severly prejudiced against the cultures of nations outside the empire, which they thought low and unworthy of respect. We obviously should not enshrine their bigotted point of view here.
::The modern concept of nation as a state came from the nationalist movement in the 17 and 18 century, which saw the redrawing of boundaries according to national characteristics: This same movement saw the demise of latin as an international language, in favor of "national languages". In response, there was a classification of res publicae according to their status: status civitatis (composed of many nations or a subset of a nation like the Vatican); status nationis (when a state was composed of a single cultural group or nation); status imperii (composed of many nations); status gentis (state of a people (literally clan) which had never sought or had had an independent state of their own)...--[[Usor:Rafaelgarcia|Rafaelgarcia]] 18:32, 26 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
:::De: "the nationalist movement in the 17 and 18 century, which saw the redrawing of boundaries according to national characteristics"—yet it can fairly argued that such a movement was at its heart a ''racist'' movement, its "nation" being the political creation of a "folk," a homogeneous body of people related by birth (ex ''natio'' 'a being born'). It led to a Germany (and in varying degrees to other European entities) in which Jews, for example, were unwelcome because they were born apart, outside the nation, as it were. ¶ A quick reading of the entry on ''nation'' in the OED suggests that the idea that a nation is not fairly close in sense to that of a race (a people) must be a quite recent development, perhaps (one speculates) influenced by the growth of "nations" of immigrants from all over, as seen especially in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, etc. ¶ The usual translation of Haggai 2:7 (2:8) is something like "And I will shake all '''nations,''' so that the treasures of all '''nations''' shall come in" (RSV). The Vulgate version of that is "Et movebo omnes '''gentes,''' et veniet Desideratus cunctis '''gentibus.'''" ¶ Cassell's says to translate the political senses of English 'nation' as ''civitas'' when it means 'body of citizens' and ''respublica'' when it means 'state', leaving for other senses ''populus, gens'' ("people, stock"), and ''natio'' ("tribe, not highly civilized"). How do the Six Nations fit in here? If they're ''Sex Nationes,'' will Cicero's & Jerome's shades think less of them than if they're ''Sex Civitates'' or ''Sex Respublicae'' ? [[Usor:IacobusAmor|IacobusAmor]] 19:32, 26 Iulii 2009 (UTC)
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