Quantum redactiones paginae "Disputatio:Atheismus" differant

As I understand it, ''credere in'' + accusative is a post-classical Christian innovation, intended to convey something stronger than merely "belief that X exists"; ''credere in Deum'' implies not only that you believe there ''is'' a God, but that you place your hope, your trust, your faith in God and serve His will. You can ''credere Deum'' without ''credere in Deum''—Satan, for example, obviously believes there is a God, but can't be said to have "faith in God" in the same way as Christians. ''Credere Deum'' and ''credere Deo'' are both valid classical formations, but it seems Augustine distinguished the two by saying that the accusative signifies belief (in the existence of), while the dative signifies ''trust''. For example, by that logic, ''credere Cartesio'' would mean "I believe Descartes (about a claim)," whereas ''credere Cartesium'' would mean "I believe Descartes exists." A useful distinction, I'd say, but I'm not sure how much basis it has in classical Latin, nor do I know how faithfully it's followed by later writers. Still, it seems fair to say that atheists need merely refrain from ''credere Deo'' in order to be atheists; demons don't ''credere in Deum'', yet demons do ''credere Deum'' and are therefore not atheists. (Also, I would assume that demons tend to ''credere Deo''). -[[Usor:Adamas|Adamas]] 17:22, 25 Iunii 2008 (UTC)

: I believe you're quite right in your conclusions about ''credere''. So this is something to pay heed to in the article text. BTW, a question concerning the extension of atheism crossed my mind when reading your example "Satan, for example, obviously believes there is a God": Obviously, atheists believe there is no God. But do they also believe there is no Satan? It would be logical to deny both but I'm not quite sure, because the focus seems to be on God. --[[Usor:Neander|Neander]] 01:25, 26 Iunii 2008 (UTC)