Quantum redactiones paginae "Disputatio:Granitum (lapis)" differant
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: In any case, I suppose we must use 'granites' if that is the accepted Latin name, although is is totally absurd historically, as 'granite' does not contain the suffix '-ite' (as the English pronunciation proves). [[Usor:Pantocrator|Pantocrator]] 04:55, 1 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
::You were right, of course, that "pomegranate" and "granite" have a cognate origin: they both "consist of grains". You're also right that neo-Latin ''granites'' seems to be an analogical form, derived from the name in modern languages and converting to the typical -ites termination unhistorically: that's how I read the evidence, anyway. But, finally, you're ''also'' right that since it exists, we had probably better use it ... even if the CIL is right in its translation of "lapis granatus". I don't know enough geology to comment on that, but it seems unwise anyway to choose "lapis granatus" in the sense "granite" if it is better known in the sense "garnet". <font face="Gill Sans">[[Usor:Andrew Dalby|Andrew]]<font color="green">[[Disputatio Usoris:Andrew Dalby| Dalby]]</font></font> 09:02, 1 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
:::I believe they do mean 'granite'; note the synonym given ''lapis syenites'', which could not mean 'garnet'. Anyway, garnet also comes from the same Latin root, it is thought from the color of the fruit. [[Usor:Pantocrator|Pantocrator]] 12:55, 2 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
::Hmm, the etymon of 'granite' couldn't possibly correspond to the Latin 'granatum' — that'd be a third- or fourth-conjugation verb having a participle of the first conjugation. Littré gives the etymology of the French cognate ''granit'' through bas-latin ''granitum'' (which does get [http://books.google.com/books?q=granitum+&btnG=Search+Books some ghits]). —[[Usor:Mycēs|Mucius Tever]] 03:11, 2 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, it seems to have somehow gotten to the fourth conjugation in Italian; hence the modern forms. [[Usor:Pantocrator|Pantocrator]] 12:55, 2 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
:::[http://books.google.nl/books?ei=nKq1S-mAPYvJ-Qa9-Jz9Ag&ct=result&q=%22marmor+granitum%22+OR+%22granitum+marmor%22&lr=&sa=N&start=10 Several sources] mention a mediaeval Latin expression "marmor granitum", sometimes abbreviated to simple "granitum", which would be at the root of Italian "granito" and hence of English "granite". Sticking close to Pantocrator's original suggestion, we might call the article [[Granitum (lapis)]], with a redirect at [[Lapis granites]]. [[Granatum (lapis)]] should then be converted into an article about the [[:en:Garnet|garnet]]. --[[Usor:Fabullus|Fabullus]] 08:56, 2 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
::::Dr. Hermann Hirt, ''Etymologie der neuhochdeutschen Sprache'', München 1921, [http://www.archive.org/stream/etymologiederneu00hirtuoft#page/200/mode/2up/search/Granit p.201], derives German [[:de:Granit|Granit]] from mediaeval Latin "granitum marmor" and Jan de Vries, ''Nederlands etymologisch woordenboek'', Leiden 1971, 1997<sup>4</sup>, [http://books.google.nl/books?id=9_X44k9-3j8C&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=graniet+%22de+Vries%22+etymologie+OR+etymologisch&source=bl&ots=ZOUT0Fk3mj&sig=t4PNda_XKpGZZYbqulL2i6cAY5c&hl=nl&ei=YLu1S9jNFdCK-QaX8JT9Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false p.217], derives Dutch [[:nl:Graniet|graniet]] through French [[:fr:Granit|granit]] from mediaeval Latin "marmor granitum". Also interesting is John Pinkerton, ''Petralogy: a Treatise on Rocks'', vol. 1, London 1811, [http://www.archive.org/stream/petratreatis01pinkrich#page/188/mode/2up/search/granitum pp.189-190], who provides several early sources for both "granitum" and "granites". --[[Usor:Fabullus|Fabullus]] 10:02, 2 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, it seems that you're right; even though the derivation seems irregular, [[granitum]] is the form we need, with the others mentioned. I would though enter this of the discretiva for ''granatum'' still. But I must mention that your suggestion to use this name for the garnet seems to say that we should use ''lapis'' for both rocks and minerals; that is actually why I chose ''saxum'' here initially. Perhaps [[granatum (minerale)]] for garnet? [[Usor:Pantocrator|Pantocrator]] 12:55, 2 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
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