Disputatio:Syndroma Möbius
De titulo recensere
- A pagina disputationis mea rescriptum:
A while back I made a page called "Syndrome Moebii" for Moebius Syndrome. You later moved the page to "Syndroma Möbius." I understand the change to syndroma, but Moebius is the appropriate Latinization of Möbius, commonly used in Romance languages such as French, Italian, and Spanish. -- [Anon]
- Thanks for your message. The change from Moebii to Möbius was in accord with our general rule, which follows both Wikipedia's "don't make things up" and current usage in Latin. In modern Latin writing and publishing, modern people's forenames may be converted to Latin but surnames in general are not converted. So we on Vicipaedia don't turn modern surnames into Latin unless a reliable source has already done so.
- If, therefore, a reliable Latin source has named this illness, we would follow the source and cite it. I did not find such a source, so I followed the general rule ... in spite of the temptation to treat the surname Möbius as if it were Latin :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:19, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
Wait! recensere
WAIT!!! It's a different Moebius: Paulus Iulius, not Augustus Ferdinandus!!! So ignore much of the content of the following six paragraphs. Nevertheless, let's leave them here for reference, as the details may prove handy in other contexts. See Moebii taenia. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:38, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Since Moebius received a German college & university education and was a student of Gauss (who published in Latin), it's a near certainty that he could read & write Latin; likewise, that he recognized that his surname was a second-declension Latin noun. The trick, if one wanted to follow strictly the severest interpretation of the non-making-things-up rule cited above, would be to find him using the word in Latin in his writings; then it would be welcome in even the sternest of rule-following hearts. Perhaps his habilitation thesis was delivered in Latin? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:11, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Certainly the surname Moebius itself had been Latinized long before this particular Moebius was born: that might be a loophole that would justify keeping it in Latin in Vicipaedia. See the genitive Moebii used in 1740 here. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:11, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- If this syndrome were a plant, the international rules of botany would allow it to be called Syndroma moebiusii (!) or Syndroma moebiusianum if the surname were not understood to be Latin and perhaps Syndroma moebii or Syndroma moebianum if it were. Indeed, -ianus/a/um seems still to be a productive suffix in Latin at large, as it has been for more than 2000 years. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:11, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- There is truth in all of that: I preferred conservatism because, Vicipaedia being work in progress and Latin being an official language in medical naming, it's very likely we will soon find a source. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:22, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- The species epithet of Stichopus moebii, a sea cucumber, gives the genitive of the surname. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:27, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Likewise other species epithets; vide Google. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:16, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Here's the doctoral dissertation. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:38, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Likewise other species epithets; vide Google. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:16, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- The species epithet of Stichopus moebii, a sea cucumber, gives the genitive of the surname. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:27, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- There is truth in all of that: I preferred conservatism because, Vicipaedia being work in progress and Latin being an official language in medical naming, it's very likely we will soon find a source. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:22, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- If this syndrome were a plant, the international rules of botany would allow it to be called Syndroma moebiusii (!) or Syndroma moebiusianum if the surname were not understood to be Latin and perhaps Syndroma moebii or Syndroma moebianum if it were. Indeed, -ianus/a/um seems still to be a productive suffix in Latin at large, as it has been for more than 2000 years. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:11, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Certainly the surname Moebius itself had been Latinized long before this particular Moebius was born: that might be a loophole that would justify keeping it in Latin in Vicipaedia. See the genitive Moebii used in 1740 here. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 15:11, 9 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
I have to check for syndrome Moebii but syndrome, syndroma and syndromum are attested in medical Latin. Unfortunately syndroma is misinterpreted as neutrius generis by the Nomina Embryologica while other sources consider it of feminine gender. In Ancient Greek συνδρομή is used as 'concurrence of symptoms, clinical picture'. So 'syndrome, -es', could be considered as a clear equivalent. In medical Latin, concursus is also used. With kind regards, Wimpus (disputatio) 22:36, 15 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Nice of you to comment, Wimpus. Maybe we should wait a little, before moving again, in case you (or someone) can find a direct Latin name for Moebius Syndrome. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:33, 16 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- Dear Andrew and IacobusAmor, I have consulted multiple dictionaries, but I still have not found such a coinage like syndrome sive syndroma Moebii. You can distinguish between Möbius syndrome (English congenital facial diplegia) and Möbius disease (English: ophthalmoplegic migraine) (and even Möbius sign), but the disease seems to became earlier associated with Möbius than the syndrome. Considering the spelling of his name: my 1990 and 1998 editions of Pschyrembel Klinisches Wörterbuch write Moebius, while my 1972 and 1977 editions write Möbius. Some polyglot dictionaries write both (depending on the language), while Arnaudov's 1977 Terminologia medica polyglotta writes Moebiusi signum (with the genitive-i glued to the -ius). Sio, I have to consult additional dicitionaries to sort this out. Another possibility is to use avoid the eponymous expression. Möbius disease is also known in Latin as hemicranaia ophthalmoplegia, but I have not found expressions like diplegia facialis congenita (despite some obscure internet sites), although the slightly more barbaric diplegia facialis congenitalis can be found in this article, although I have not checked whether this deals with Möbius syndrome. With kind regards, Wimpus (disputatio) 16:10, 18 Septembris 2014 (UTC)
- What about Moebii taenia? StevenJ81 (disputatio) 21:33, 12 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
- Dear Andrew and IacobusAmor, I have consulted multiple dictionaries, but I still have not found such a coinage like syndrome sive syndroma Moebii. You can distinguish between Möbius syndrome (English congenital facial diplegia) and Möbius disease (English: ophthalmoplegic migraine) (and even Möbius sign), but the disease seems to became earlier associated with Möbius than the syndrome. Considering the spelling of his name: my 1990 and 1998 editions of Pschyrembel Klinisches Wörterbuch write Moebius, while my 1972 and 1977 editions write Möbius. Some polyglot dictionaries write both (depending on the language), while Arnaudov's 1977 Terminologia medica polyglotta writes Moebiusi signum (with the genitive-i glued to the -ius). Sio, I have to consult additional dicitionaries to sort this out. Another possibility is to use avoid the eponymous expression. Möbius disease is also known in Latin as hemicranaia ophthalmoplegia, but I have not found expressions like diplegia facialis congenita (despite some obscure internet sites), although the slightly more barbaric diplegia facialis congenitalis can be found in this article, although I have not checked whether this deals with Möbius syndrome. With kind regards, Wimpus (disputatio) 16:10, 18 Septembris 2014 (UTC)