Disputatio:Restitorium

Ablative for referencing things (e.g., units of measure?)

One wonders if any of several referential uses of the ablative are relevant here: "ubi R significat valorem resistentiae in ohmiis, et G significat valorem reciprocum in siemendibus." This in ohmiis and in siemendibus may be more intelligible for modern casual readers, but did you consider the bare ablative? "The price of a thing is put in the ablative" (A&G #416). "The Ablative of Specification denotes that in respect to which anything is or is done" (A&G #418). Example: paulum aetate progressi 'somewhat advanced in age'. There's also the Ablative of Means, Manner, Instrument, etc. Many of these functions are to reference things: "The Ablative answers the questions whence? by what means? how? from what cause? in what manner? when? and where? (Bradley's Arnold #262). Just wondering. IacobusAmor 11:20, 24 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

If introducing a new term, perhaps would it be better left in to be more explicit? I hadn't considered having it without the in. --Rafaelgarcia 12:32, 24 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Restitorium?

By the way I'm not sure why its "Restitorium" rather than "Resistorium" but apparently that's how Morgan quotes Vox Lat. I wonder if there are any other examples of using the perfect stem likewise.--Rafaelgarcia 12:35, 24 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Are your sure it's right? It seems to refer to the verb restito, rather than to the verb resisto. IacobusAmor 13:23, 24 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Ah yes I think you're right. It's from restito to lag. Thus, restitorium something to make things lag. That makes a lot more sense!--Rafaelgarcia 13:52, 24 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for being critical in Xmas, but before I forget the whole thing, I must say "restitorium" is odd wrt morphological constitution. If "restitorium" came from "restitare", the expected word would be **restitatorium; whereas "restitorium" seems to presuppose the non-existing 4th-conjugation verb **restio. It seems to me that "restitorium" is a pis aller construct with vague associations revolving around "resisto/restiti". From the Latin p o v the same must be said about "resistor", but it is a reborrowing from English. "Resistorium" looks better, perhaps because of the word consistorium 'locus ubi consistitur', so basically "resistorium" might denote 'locus ubi resistitur'. Maybe resistor can be looked upon that way? Quite a lot of languages have borrowed E. resistor and use a native word beside, e.g. Swedish motstånd, Finnish vastus, German Widerstand. Instead of the morphologically problematic verb "resistere", I suggest we take another verb such as impedio, cohibeo or inhibeo and form impeditrum, cohibitrum or inhibitrum. And I have nothing against retaining resistor as a loan word like other languages. --Neander 22:31, 23 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

I must correct my sayings: I was so much under the spell of resisto that I forgot the verb resto, restiti which also has the meaning 'to resist'. Given this much, the word "restitorium" becomes morphologically more transparent. But basically "Xorium" tends to denote a place where X is done or happens, or where X is hold. But that needn't be a problem. --Neander 01:45, 27 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

A resistor does indeed correspond to the place in the electrical circuit where resistance to current flow primarily occurs. Alternatively, it is also a thing or device that makes that resistance happens. I only chose restitorium because it appeared in Vox Latina (according to Morgan).--Rafaelgarcia 23:41, 27 Decembris 2007 (UTC)

Resistitrum

Restitorium seems wrong to me. The nomina agenti from resisto (re + sisto) would be:

• resistitor (m.) – "a man who resists"
• resistitrix (f.) – "a woman who resists"
• resistitrum (n.) – "a thing that resists"
• resistitorius, -a, -um (adj.) – "related to the person or thing that resists"

The choice is therefore between resistitrum (noun) and resistitorium (nominalized adjective). I vote for resistitrum --Grufo (disputatio) 17:54, 14 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

But aren't these suffixes formed indeed on the perfect passive participle, e.g. constructor, actor, procurator...? Now none of the three possible verbs (resisto, resto, and restito) have passives, but in Lewis and Short I found classical institor and post-classical destitor and praestitor (confusing the matter are classical obstetrix and post-classical consistorium). I think then that Professor Morgan was write in his choice of the stem restit-. But if we wanted to use -rum, the analogical forms would be, for resisto and resto, restitrum (perhaps restetrum or resistrum), and for restito, restistatrum. Lesgles (disputatio) 16:53, 15 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

According to Professor Gildersleeve, the suffix is -tro (neuter -trum), which Professor Palmer gives as -tro-. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:33, 15 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I wasn't sure how to divide up the morphemes here. Lesgles (disputatio) 17:13, 16 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

Si pro restitorio (a Morgan recte ficto) nomen agentis neutri generis substituamus, formà q.e. restitrum (a Lesgles recte fictà) utamur. Constat enim institorem ab insistendo et destitorem a desistendo deducta esse, ut ex vi et sensu horum apparet. Idem de (Iove) Statore dici potest. Reapse lingua Latina duo homonyma statores habere videtur: stator 'apparitor, nuntius' a stando et stator 'qui sistit, stabilitor' a sistendo. Iuppiter Stator est, non *Sistitor. Per ratiocinationem ergo derivationem "voluntariam" (ut dixit Varro) accipimus, quae est: institor, instetrix (cf. obstetrix) vel institrix, instetrum/institrum, quin etiam restitor, restetrix/restitrix, restetrum/restitrum. ¶ Equidem restitorio faveo. Neander (disputatio) 15:09, 16 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

Ego quoque, quia fons iam bonus est. Lesgles (disputatio) 17:13, 16 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

"Noli fingere"

If the thing is already attested in a creditworthy source, why are we worrying about it? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 17:34, 15 Decembris 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I hadn't seen the source… Anyway, for all these -(t)or / -trix / -trum words I created a small guide in case of doubts. --Grufo (disputatio) 01:04, 16 Decembris 2015 (UTC)