Disputatio:Ioannes Adams
Latest comment: abhinc 16 annos by Mycēs in topic Civitatum sive Civitatium????
...erat praesidens: imperfect of duration. --Alex1011 17:33, 12 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, and as Bradley's Arnold says, "The Latin Imperfect tense denotes an action which was continuous in the past, and corresponds to the English 'I was doing'." But here the statement is historical: not "John Adams was being president" (when such & such happened), but "John Adams was president" (and is no more). In other words, my conception follows Allen & Greenough: "In many verbs [the Imperfect] does not differ in meaning from the Perfect. Thus rex erat and rex fuit may often be used indifferently; but the former describes the condition while the latter only states it" (#470). I was merely stating the fact: he was president, and that's that. Granted, the perfect here may sound more abrupt (bald? clinical?) than the imperfect. Could a native Latin-speaker please let us know what to do? ;)
- This issue has profound implications for the entire Vicipaedia, because, just as articles can start with a sentence of the form "A est B," they can start with a sentence of the form "A erat/fuit B." Very, very many follow that pattern, and they might all want to choose the same tense for it. Which tense should it be? IacobusAmor 18:32, 12 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe people would like to look at the start of articles written by native speakers to see what turns up. I've been browsing in Suetonius, and here are the beginnings of the first sentences of two articles in his De Poetis, with the Loeb translation:
- Publius Terentius Afer, Karthagine natus, serviit Romae Terentio Lucano senatori. "Publius Terentius Afer, born at Carthage, was the slave at Rome of Terentius Lucanus, a senator."
- P. Vergilius Maro Mantuanus parentibus modicis fuit. "Publius Vergilius Maro, a native of Mantua, had parents of humble origin."
- Both use the perfect, though neither exactly follows the structure we're examining here. IacobusAmor 19:16, 12 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe people would like to look at the start of articles written by native speakers to see what turns up. I've been browsing in Suetonius, and here are the beginnings of the first sentences of two articles in his De Poetis, with the Loeb translation:
- Historia Apollonii Tyri, prima sententia: In civitate Antiochia rex fuit quidam nomine Antiochus, a quo ipsa civitas nomen accepit Antiochia. Is habuit unam filiam, virginem speciosissimam, in qua nihil rerum natura exerraverat, nisi quod mortalem statuerat.
Secundum Ioannem, prologus: In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat aput Deum, Et Deus erat Verbum. Hoc erat in principio apud Deum.
Secundum Lucam: Fuit in diebus Herodis regis Iudaeae sacerdos quidam nomine Zacharias de vice Abia, et uxor illius de filiabus Aaron, et nomen eius Elisabeth. Erant autem iusti ambo ante Deum ... et non erat illis filius. ... --Alex1011 22:42, 12 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
Civitatum sive Civitatium???? recensere
LionhardusCiampa 23:23, 21 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
- Ambo potes dicere, sed civitatum frequentius dicitur. —Mucius Tever 18:37, 24 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
Fons recensionis mense Iulio 2020 recensere
Meyers Großes Konversations-Lexikon, tomus 1. Lipsiae 1905, p. 95 (hic in interreti)