Disputatio:Densitas et Spissitudo

The text below is copied from Disputatio:Caiania.

"Is spissitas better than densitas"? I must admit I have never looked into this. I didn't change that word. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:51, 25 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I think that was Rafael's. My Oxford Latin Minidictionary doesn't offer Spissitas, whereas it does offer Densitas and I guess Anglophones will be able to relate to this much more easily. --Harrissimo 15:17, 25 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I don't know per se the best word. I was just going by the page Spissitudo (discretiva) and the links therein. From what I've read about frequentia, however, I think that should be the best word (crowdedness, abundance). On the other hand, I don't know how meanings evolved over time in latin. Frequentia (in spanish frecuencia) came to mean the same thing as frequency in english (at least in a scientific context), Spissus (in spanish espesso) came to mean thickness as in viscousness (did this come from a medical or scientific use?); densitas (densidad) came to mean density in the same sense as the word in english (newton in latin used densitas in this sense and so did other scientists of that time). However, I don't know if densitas is used in the sense of number per unit area. --Rafaelgarcia 16:36, 25 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I didn't like to mention frequentia, Rafael, remembering some recent dispute ...! But (looking at a classical Latin dictionary only) I think frequentia is the best of the three. Densitas is just possible (Quintilian talks about the density of metaphors in a text, meaning how many there are); spissitudo seems to be used mainly about honey, which is admittedly spreadable but not in the same way as people. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:17, 25 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Words doesn't say frequentia means density and it could confuse, I think, from the other contexts of the word. Spissitudo and Densitas have roughly equal Google hits from my search and our page is Spissitudo incolarum. I think that I have seen densitas more in article text and infoboxes, though. --Harrissimo 23:18, 25 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Looking things up on Perseus I get this:

creber means "thick in space or time" commonly meaning "frequent" as well as "thick" depending on the context--the most general idea of crowded it seems.

frequens mostly means "occuring frequently", "frequently visited" or "crowded with people" --is it focusing on the quality of repeated motion or perhaps accumulation or result of motions? (note frequentia means number, multitude)

densus means "crowded together" as opposed to rarus. It carries the context of things not moving. For example dense woods but not in the sense of crowded room.--is it focusing on the quality of encountering something?

crassus means "solid/thick" as opposed to "fluid/thin" or aquatus or tenuis--is it focusing on the quality of flow? being pliable? A thick versus thin branch.

Spissus means "crowded" in the sense of "compact and impenetrable" and of "dense" or "slow".--is it focusing on the quality of unchanging inpenetrability? resistance to movement or flow?

So all of these are close synonyms but they each seem to ask us to look at things from a different perspectives. I'm not sure I completely grasp the subtlety of the distinctions, though. So which one best corresponds to the quality of people being crowded on the scale of a country? I think either densus or spissus works as well. --Rafaelgarcia 03:43, 26 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I made a small changes above to crassus, spissus, frequens.--Rafaelgarcia 12:49, 26 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

My opinions:

• creber: I have never heard of it and I don't think it would work well at all
• densus/itas: My favourite, personally, since it means pretty much what we need and most European languages probably relate to it in some way.
• spissus/itas: The second best option in my opinion. I have seen it around, for sure, but maybe it could mean thickness of a substance (did someone write honey somewhere for this?)
• frequens/entia: Ainsworth's dictionary (via Iacobus) recommends it, but this could mislead, since it has other meanings and, as Rafael said above, it could relate to Spanish and English words relating to frequency/number.

I suppose that we could carry on with both spiss(us/itas) and dens(us/itas) since 1. It would take a huge amount of Admin work to change all references from one to the other 2. They are the best two options (in my opinion at least) and have mainly relevant definitions. --Harrissimo 15:44, 26 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree with you that, from what I've read, densitas is the better word. However, given the great number of times that spissitas is already used on Vicipaedia, I don't want to change anything unless I become *absolutely* sure that densitas is the better choice. To me, it's worth thinking about for a couple weeks more and I'll continue to search for answers.--Rafaelgarcia 16:19, 26 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we really need to change everything to do with Spissitas (if it is proven to be less effective than Densitas) since the wider Vicipaedia community will probably continue to use both terms anyway. It's a bit like saying on the English Wikipedia "magnitude is a better word than size, so we will all change the 15, 000 pages with "size" written on. --Harrissimo 16:43, 26 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Originally I thought there is a slight tendency in favour of spissitas against densitas, meanwhile I am not so sure anymore.
In Stowasser I found silva densa, umbra densa, corpora densa saetis, hostes densi, and grando spissa, nubes spissae, aer spissum, theatrum spissum, corona viris spissa. --Alex1011 10:30, 9 Septembris 2007 (UTC)

De pagina movenda

Rather than simply moving the page to "densitas", I would rather move it to "densitas et spissitudo" and make redirects to that page from "densitas" and "spissitudo". Then on the "densitas and spissitudo" explain the difference and similarities including examples from both scientific and non scientific usages. --Rafaelgarcia 15:03, 28 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I changed the movenda to "Densitas et Spissitudo". --Harrissimo 18:43, 30 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

If no one objects I'll move it today--Rafaelgarcia 12:48, 31 Augusti 2007 (UTC)

Spissitudo in chemia ?

Do we have any citation for the use of spissitudo to mean concentration? I couldn't find one in a brief search. This use is confusing since spissitudo is adopted here to mean number density (for which it is likely the best word), a distinct concept of density. Pantocrator 12:56, 16 Februarii 2010 (UTC)