Disputatio:Hobbitus Ille

Shouldn't the opening sentence read "Hobbit est fabula [quae] scripta est a Iohanno Ronaldo Reuel Tolkien."? Alexanderr 20:05, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe, I'm not that good in Latin (yet).

I had a question myself also: what's the ablative of Johannes? I see I constructed it like it belongs to the first declination, which it obviously doesn't belong to. So, should it be Johanne? --Agricola 20:16, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Well I'm not all that good myself :D and quite possibly am wrong. That's just how I'd phrase it... Anyways according to the vulgate the ablative is Ioanne. Alexanderr 20:31, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Iohannes, Iohannis, Iohanni, Iohannem, Iohanne, third declension.--Ioshus ^(disp) 20:35, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Also wouldn't it be "ab Io(h)anne"? Alexanderr 20:36, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Alex and Ioshus! Had a look myself in the Vulgate (an online edition) and had found out already, but thanks anyway!

Don't know whether it should be a or ab. Does it matter that the I in Iohanne is pronounces as a consonant? --Agricola 20:40, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Well it appears that Iesus is "ab Iesu" in the ablative so if it follows the same pattern it would be "ab" aswell. Also I do wonder if "visus est" is the right word, for "is recognized as" in latin. It seems like an anglicism. Alexanderr 20:43, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

I've indeed found in the Vulgate the phrase ab Iohanne; so that's correct.

Visum est basically means, of course, it is seen/perceived, which is what I meant to say.

As to your other edits: proferre is a good word for publish, IMHO, and I don't see, why that sentence should be cut in two. The first sentence can be rendered, I think, as Hobbit fabula ab Iohanne Ronaldo Reuel Tolkien scripta est. --Agricola 20:57, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Ab is correct before vowels, semi vowels, h, and anywhere else you might not be sure. Visum est is past tense, it does not mean it is seen, but it was seen. This verb, in the passive, does mean "seem". "Videtur insolitum"=>"it seems weird". Proferre is not the best word for publish.--Ioshus ^(disp) 23:05, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Well I don't mind which word we use for publishing, but I don't see why those sentences should be conjoined. It seems to me that there is no obvious correlation between the two subjects, but maybe we can write it as " In anno 1937 Liber, qui saepe visus est praelusionem esse libri Tolkiniesis Domini Anulorum, prolatus est". Or at least that is how I'd do it. Not saying its correct or anything, just that that's how I'd phrase it. Alexanderr 21:25, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

edo, edere, edidi, editus - to publish, nisi fallor. Sinister Petrus 23:09, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Cave ne falli, Petre! Edo, edere significat "cibum ingerere". Edo, edare, ededi, edatus est "to publish."--Ioshus ^(disp) 23:30, 3 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Mehercle, Ioshe! Ecce:

Edo, edere, edi, esum = 'to eat'

Edo, edere, edidi, editum = 'to publish'

IacobusAmor 01:07, 4 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Summisse miror...--Ioshus ^(disp) 01:14, 4 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

Vae mihi! Fallor iterum. Ita vero, bene sciebam esse discrimen inter "edere" et "edare." Sed partem secundam oblitus sum, ergo "edere" nec "edare." Quamquam tres partes correctae erat. Nonne? Sinister Petrus 01:29, 4 Septembris 2006 (UTC)

De Bilbone "Baggins"

I do not want to be silly with translations, but is Bilbo Baggins going to be Bilbo, -nis or Bilbus, -i? and on a similar thing, but Bilbo's surname is translated too, as far as I know in Spanish (Bolsón), Basque (Zorrozabal) and Catalan (Saquet)... all meaning sort of "Baggins". Should we make a translation of the surname too? It seems that Tolkien wanted most of the names in his books to be translated (I just know in Spanish, Basque and Catalan). Would Baggins be translated from pera, -ae, sacchus, -i or crumena, -ae?--Xaverius 16:00, 13 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

I never thought about those other-language translations. However, there is a partial Latin translation on the Web, and I guess, now you ask, we ought to follow its lead. I haven't looked to see what it does with Bilbo's name, I must admit. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:04, 13 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

The Finnish & Polynesian methods would make it Bilbo, -onis (as with Frodo, -onis). + According to Vicipaedia's usual policy, the surname would remain Baggins. IacobusAmor 16:43, 13 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

Well, if we look at this list [[bg:Билбо Бегинс]] [[bs:Bilbo Baggins]] [[ca:Bilbo Saquet]] [[cs:Bilbo Pytlík]] [[da:Bilbo Sækker]] [[de:Figuren in Tolkiens Welt#Bilbo_Beutlin]] [[en:Bilbo Baggins]] [[es:Bilbo Bolsón]] [[eu:Bilbo Zorrozabal]] [[fi:Bilbo Reppuli]] [[fr:Bilbon Sacquet]] [[gl:Bilbo Bulseiro]] [[he:בילבו בגינס]] [[hr:Bilbo Baggins]] [[hu:Zsákos Bilbó]] [[ia:Bilbo Baggins]] [[it:Bilbo Baggins]] [[ja:ビルボ・バギンズ]] [[nl:Bilbo Balings]] [[no:Bilbo Lommelun]] [[pl:Bilbo Baggins]] [[pt:Bilbo Bolseiro]] [[ru:Бильбо Бэггинс]] [[simple:Middle-earth characters#Bilbo_Baggins]] [[sl:Bilbo Bisagin]] [[sv:Bilbo Bagger]] [[th:บิลโบ แบ๊กกิ้นส์]] [[tr:Bilbo Baggins]] [[zh:比爾博·巴金斯]] It seems that most languages translate the surname... Maybe and just for flavour we could do it here this time... As I have said Before, Tolkien seemed keen in having naes easily translatable into other languages--Xaverius 17:02, 13 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

This site, eventhough on a free-host website, has compiled the names in the translation into one place. Bilbo -nis and Frodo -nis and used and Perans -sis for Baggins. Harrissimo.

Also doesn't violate original resrach/coining this way. Harrissimo.

Fine. Bilbonis Peransis (genitive) was on this page till earlier today. I took it out because there was no source cited. It could now be replaced, with a citation. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:11, 13 Novembris 2007 (UTC)

Mox luci dandus....

CFA, BR --Iustinus (disputatio) 14:36, 14 Augusti 2012 (UTC)

SOOOOO EXCITED :D!!! Mattie (disputatio) 16:46, 14 Augusti 2012 (UTC)

Cras Hobbitum habeamus! [1] --Xaverius 14:41, 12 Septembris 2012 (UTC)